[HPforGrownups]"other ways of destroying a man . . ."

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 125993


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "amiabledorsai"
<amiabledorsai at y...> wrote:
> 
> Theotokos wrote:
> 
> > "You are quite wrong," said Dumbledore, [snip] "Indeed,
> > your failure to understand that there are things much worse than 
> > death has always been your greatest weakness--"
> > 
> > ...edited...


> Amiable Dorsai:
> 
> The scene you recounted made me stop and think quite a bit.  It 
> raises so many questions and possibilities, ...
> 
> "merely taking your life would not satisfy me." My first thought was
> that Dumbledore wants revenge for some of the grief that Riddle
> has caused, ... Could it be that Dumbledore wants to use Riddle--or,
> at least, his power, to in some way heal the damage that he's 
> caused?
> 
> ...edited..
> 
> A true victory for the forces of light would be to kill not just
> Voldemort, but the *idea* of Voldemort.
> 
> Amiable Dorsai

bboyminn:

Let me start at the end, regarding not killing Voldemort but killing
the idea of Voldemort; I like this and it is so very true. Killing
Voldemort, or someone like him, has a very high potential to make that
person a martyr and a 'larger-then-life' legend. In doing that, you
actually give MORE power to the person and the cause. 

So, in summary, on this point, I very much agree that the wizard world
must defeat Voldemort's cause.

Now to the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort. I don't necessarily
disagree with what you, and what others in the past, are saying, but I
want to add another point to the mix.

Dumbledore can't actually kill Voldemort. When Voldemort got his body
back, he referred to it as his old body and his old strength, which I
take to mean that he is right back where he was the day before he was
vaporized. He has a degree of protection against death.

For some insight on Voldemort and the nature of his protections see...
Date:  Wed Feb 9, 2005  2:30 pm
Subject: Voldie Immortal?? -Speculation (was- Dumbledore the General)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/124268
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/124277

Date:  Wed Jan 19, 2005  3:48 am
Subject: Re: LV's experiments - The Deadly Protection
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/122358

The gist is that if Dumbledore tries to AK Voldemort, it's likely he
will either fail, or Voldemort will again be reduced to vapor.
However, in being reduced to vapor again, Voldemort has a certain
advantage. For one thing he has Death Eaters readily available to help
restore him using a tried and proven restoration process. 

In addition, because of the Prophecy, Dumbledore assumes that Harry is
the only person who can truly rid the world of Voldemort.

So, to some extent, Dumbledore is bluffing. He is speaking in a strong
confident voice that hides the fact that he is limited in what he can do.

While I believe all that to be true, I don't think that prevents
Dumbledore from also having a somewhat spiritual message in his words.
In that, I mean. I don't think Dumbledore is lying to Voldemort, he
believes everything he says. There are things worse than death, and
there are fundamental truths the Voldemort just doesn't get.

I also believe that Dumbledore is attempting to mentally disarm or
undermine Voldemort by calling him Tom. In a sense, implying to
Voldemort that he can try to make himself out as a god, but Dumbledore
knows him for the insecure boy that he is. 

These are all things suggested before, and again, I'm not trying to
discount them. I'm just trying to add to that, the concept that even
if he wanted to, Dumbledore knows he can't kill Voldemort, so he
bluffs and plays head games with him.

As to what some of these 'other ways of destroying a man' might be. A
few things occur to me. First, and most obvious, is the Dementor's
Kiss. That certainly destroys a man without killing him. 

Another might be the loss of magical powers. Can you imagine, all
magical power force from Voldemort's body by Harry /special power/?
Poor Voldemort, force to live out his days as the very thing he
despises; a muggle.

And speaking of fundemental truths that Voldemort doesn't understand,
I think Voldemort's greatest curse could end up being the very thing
he is most desperately seeking; immortality. What would happen if
Voldemort was able to create a body and mind that could never die, but
the experiment went horribly wrong, and while he couldn't die, he
would indeed age normally. Many decades down the road, and into
centuries beyond that, a frail helpless skeletal Voldemort lives on
long forgotten by everyone. Dooomed to that very eternal life he so
desperately sought. How's that for justice?

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn