The Falling-Out of the Hogwarts Four

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 126013



> bboyminn:
> 
> This has been discussed on and off on various occassions, but it is 
> good question because I think many people have a very distorted idea
> of what went on way back then, and an even more distorted idea about
> Salazar Slytherin.
> 
> First, the selection of students by some characteristic (Smart, 
> Brave, Hardworking/Loyal, Ambitious) is a separate issue from why 
> the Founders had a falling out.
> 

Valky:
I don't think so. In the sorting Hat's New song it says: These
differences caused little strife When *first* they came to life (my
emphasis), implying that the differences were a larger problem later
than they were to begin with.
And later the discord creeping among Hogwarts causes the "Houses" to
turn upon each other, not the individuals. The fallout and the house
values go hand in hand.


> bboy:
> The House characteristics were simply a method for the Founders to
> select the students that would do best under their tutelage; very 
> much as they had always done under the Apprentice system but with a 
> greater number of student. 

Valky:
I disagree again. The sorting was no pre-ordained measure. It was
resolution to the disagreement about which students the whole school
should accept in.
The sortng hats new song: Said Slytherin '*We'll* teach just those who
ancestry is purest' and same again for Godric and for Rowena, however
Helga alone says "I'll teach the lot" which I suspect might mean that
the others followed her lead on this matter and arranged to have their
own house.
 *my emphasis.


bboy:
> Given that Helga Hufflepuff wasn't too particular
> about her students, they were assured that all students would get an
> adequate education.
>

Valky:
But the others didn't do this to be assured every magic child would
get an education, three of the founders clearly approached the
situation with an opinion on *which type* of magic children to teach,
   I think you are applying Helga Hufflepuff's ideal to all of the
founders which would be incorrect.
They more likely did it because Helga had pointed out the error of
their ways to them, and definitely to remain friends and out of
respect for each other.


> bboy: 
> The split between the Founders did not come because of student House
> characteristics, but because of Slytherins distrust of muggles, and
> therefore muggle-borns. Remember that wizards at this time in 
> historywere greatly persecuted by muggles.  

Valky: 
But JKR has pointed this out to be relatively laughable a situation in
Harrys History of Magic essay on Witch burning. 
OTOH I agree that the distrust of Muggles in itself is a justifiable
position.


> bboy: 
> Now to one very important point, we have NO real evidence that
> Slytherin was the pureblood-Nazi he is made out to be. All we really
> know is that he didn't trust muggles, 

Valky:
Except for that monster hidden in the Hogwarts basement, created to
massacre innocent children because they are Muggleborn...



> bboy: 
> I have no problem seeing the conflict over the admittance of
> muggle-born students escalating to the level it apparently did. 
> There was a lot at stake, and the consequences of a mistake were 
> grave indeed. Ultimatley, Slytherin saw that he was out numbered and 
> could not win, so he was face with warring with people he once 
> counted as friends, or leaving the school. I think, in leaving the 
> school, Salazar did a very noble and selfless thing.
>

Valky:
Nor I, but I still think that Salazar became essentially irrational
about the danger from muggle children. Any real threat would be the
result of actions by an individual or relatively small contingent of
these children, yet he had decided that it would be better to kill
them all than deal with this. Why should he win that battle?

Salazar leaving may have been a noble act, but then again why should
we consider it as having been selfless when he vowed vengeance via the
Basilisk and the COS, there is far more evidence that his leaving was
in bitterness than in nobility.

 

> bboy:
> Not saying I'm right, but that's how I see it.
> 

Valky:
Not saying I am right either, but as I see it the Chamber of Secrets
is where Tom learned he wanted to be like Slytherin, indicating that
what Tom Riddle has become is a good measure of what Salazar Slytherin
may have had in mind for himself, at least in basis.

The sorting hats new song says the houses 'divided sought to rule',
This is what Voldemort does.

I think Salazar was most likely a good person (his friends loved him
and mourned his leaving), but his love of ambition unbalanced his path
in life (he created the chamber of secrets and he lost himself in
murderous intent).