[HPforGrownups] Robe Malfunction

[Shaun Hately]

No: HPFGUIDX 126212

On 16 Mar 2005 at 3:41, gelite67 wrote:

> 
> 
> OK, the subject is a little tongue-in-cheek but this really bugs me --
> don't wizards/witches wear clothes under their robes?
> 
> In COS, Ron and Harry get larger robes and shoes when they take the 
> Polyjuice Potion to change into Crabbe and Goyle, but nothing else.  
> What about pants, shirts, and undies?
> 
> In OOP when Harry enters Snapes worst memory, James turns Snape 
> upside down revealing his underwear.
> 
> In GOF, after the World Quidditch Match, when the Death Eaters are on 
> the loose, Draco taunts Hermione that she'll be up in the air showing 
> her knickers.
> 
> I don't get it!

By coincidence, during my recent readthrough of the books I gathered all the information 
I could find on this. There's a rather mixed bag of information there.

>From Philosopher's Stone.

1. "Harry woke at five o'clock the next morning and was too excited and nervous to go 
back to sleep. He got up and pulled on his jeans because he didn't want to walk into the 
station in his wizard's robes -- he'd change on the train."   

2. "'Scabbers has been fighting, not us,' said Ron, scowling at her. 'Would you mind 
leaving while we change?'... He and Ron took off their jackets and pulled on their long 
black robes. Ron's were a bit short for him, you could see his sneakers underneath 
them."

3. "Harry knew, when they wished him good luck outside the locker rooms the next 
afternoon, that Ron and Hermione were wondering whether they'd ever see him alive 
again. This wasn't what you'd call comforting. Harry hardly heard a word of Wood's pep 
talk as he pulled on his Quidditch robes and picked up his Nimbus Two Thousand."   

4. "And suddenly, their wardrobes were empty, their trunks were packed, Neville's toad 
was found lurking in a corner of the toilets; notes were handed out to all students, 
warning them not to use magic over the holidays ('I always hope they'll forget to give us 
these,' said Fred Weasley sadly); Hagrid was there to take them down to the fleet of 
boats that sailed across the lake; they were boarding the Hogwarts Express; talking and 
laughing as the countryside became greener and tidier; eating Bettie Bott's Every Flavor 
Beans as they sped past Muggle towns; pulling off their wizard robes and putting on  
jackets and coats; pulling into platform nine and three-quarters at King's Cross Station."

>From Chamber of Secrets:

5. "Immediately, his insides started writhing as though he'd just swallowed live snakes - 
doubled up, he wondered whether he was going to be sick - then a burning sensation 
spread rapidly from his stomach to the very ends of his fingers and toes - next, bringing 
him gasping to all fours, came a horrible melting feeling, as the skin all over his body 
bubbled like hot wax - and before his eyes, his hands began to grow, the fingers 
thickened, the nails broadened, the knuckles were bulging like bolts - his shoulders 
stretched painfully and a prickling on his forehead told him that hair was creeping down 
toward his eyebrows - his robes ripped as his chest expanded like a barrel bursting its 
hoops - his feet were agony in shoes four sizes too small."

>From Prisoner of Azkaban:

6. "At a quarter to eleven, the Gryffindor team set off for the locker rooms. The weather 
couldn't have been more different from their match against Hufflepuff. It was a clear, 
cool day with a very light breeze; there would be no visibility problems this time, and 
Harry, though nervous, was starting to feel the excitement only a Quidditch match could 
bring. They could hear the rest of the school moving into the stadium beyond. Harry took 
off his black school robes, removed his wand from his pocket, and stuck it inside the T-
shirt he was going to wear under his Quidditch robes. He only hoped he wouldn't need 
it. He wondered suddenly whether Professor Lupin was in the crowd, watching."

>From Goblet of Fire:

7. "There was a definite end-of-the-holidays gloom in the air when Harry awoke next 
morning. Heavy rain was still splattering against the window as he got dressed in jeans 
and a sweatshirt; they would change into their school robes on the Hogwarts Express."

8. "Harry soared higher in a circle; the Horntail was still following his progress; its head 
revolving on its long neck - if he kept this up, it would be nicely dizzy - but better not 
push it too long, or it would be breathing fire again - Harry plummeted just as the 
Horntail opened its mouth, but this time he was less lucky - he missed the flames, but 
the tail came whipping up to meet him instead, and as he swerved to the left, one of the 
long spikes grazed his shoulder, ripping his robes -- He could feel it stinging, he could 
hear screaming and groans from the crowd, but the cut didn't seem to be deep. . . . Now  
he zoomed around the back of the Horntail, and a possibility occurred to him...."

9. "'He'll be fine,' said Madam Pomfrey, giving Harry some pajamas and pulling screens 
around him. He took off his robes, pulled on the pyjamas, and got into bed. Ron, 
Hermione, Bill, Mrs. Weasley, and the black dog came around the screen and settled 
themselves in chairs on either side of him. Ron and Hermione were looking at him  
almost cautiously, as though scared of him."

>From Order of the Phoenix

10. "'We'd better change,' said Hermione at last, and all of them opened their trunks with 
difficulty and pulled on their school robes. She and Ron pinned their prefect badges 
carefully."

11. "Harry said nothing. He threw his wand down on to his bedside table, pulled off his 
robes, stuffed them angrily into his trunk and pulled on his pyjamas."  

12. "All their teammates but Angelina were already in the changing room when they 
entered.  

'All right, Ron?' said George, winking at him.  

'Yeah,' said Ron, who had become quieter and quieter all the way down to the pitch.  

'Ready to show us all up, Ickle Prefect?' said Fred, emerging tousle-haired from the 
neck of his Quidditch robes, a slightly malicious grin on his face.  

'Shut up,' said Ron, stony-faced, pulling on his own team robes for the first time. They 
fitted him well considering they had been Oliver Wood's, who was rather broader in the 
shoulder."

13. "Angelina had changed already and was talking to the rest of the team when they 
entered. Harry and Ron pulled on their robes (Ron attempted to do his up back-to-front 
for several minutes before Alicia took pity on him and went to help), then sat down to 
listen to the pre-match talk while the babble of voices outside grew steadily louder as 
the crowd came pouring out of the castle towards the pitch."

14. "Snow was filling up the window now. Harry became aware that the knees of his 
robes were soaked through: Fang was drooling with his head in Harry's lap."

15. "They pulled off their robes and put on pyjamas in silence; Dean, Seamus and 
Neville were already asleep. Harry put his glasses on his bedside table and got into bed 
but did not pull the hangings closed around his four-poster; instead, he stared at the 
patch of starry sky visible through the window next to Neville's bed. If he had known, this 
time last night, that in twenty-four hours' time he would have kissed Cho Chang..."

16. "When Ron woke up, Harry pretended to have enjoyed a refreshing nap too. Their 
trunks arrived from Hogwarts while they were eating lunch, so they could dress as 
Muggles for the trip to St Mungo's. Everybody except Harry was riotously happy and 
talkative as they changed out of their robes into jeans and sweatshirts."

17. "'What?' said Ron, looking amazed. (Harry wanted to stamp on Ron's foot, but that 
sort of thing is much harder to bring off unnoticed when you're wearing jeans rather than 
robes.) 'Is that your dad down the end, Neville?'"

(PLEASE NOTE: I do not claim this list is entirely exhaustive - I may have missed some 
relevant references.)

Of the 17 references, 5 (3,4, 10 11,12,13) seem to me to at least imply the wearing of 
clothes under robes.

10 (1, 5, 7, 8, 9, 11, 14, 15, 16, 17) seem to me to imply the wearing of nothing 
significant under robes.

1 (2) is mixed.

1 (6) clearly mentions clothing worn under robes, but may imply this is unusual.

I'll analyse in detail.

1 (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "He got up and pulled on his jeans because he didn't 
want to walk into the station in his wizard's robes -- he'd change on the train." implies 
that Harry would not wear jeans if he was wearing his wizard robes - he puts on jeans 
*because* he is not going to wear his robes to the station.  

2 (MIXED): "'Would you mind leaving while we change?'... He and Ron took off their 
jackets and pulled on their long black robes." The first part implies that modesty requires 
Hermione to leave - however all the text says is they remove their jackets - nothing else 
- suggesting other clothes are left on.

3 (CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "Harry hardly heard a word of Wood's pep talk as he 
pulled on his Quidditch robes and picked up his Nimbus Two Thousand." There are girls 
on the team, and presumably Wood only gives his pep talk when all are present - so 
Harry is probably changing in the presence of girls.

4 (CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "pulling off their wizard robes and putting on  
jackets and coats" is similar to two - after pulling off the robes, the only clothing 
mentioned as being put on are jackets or coats - suggesting other clothes are being 
worn.

5. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "his robes ripped as his chest expanded like a 
barrel bursting its hoops" implies that Harry is only wearing his robes - no mention of his 
other clothes tearing or ripping.

6. (CLOTHES UNDERNEATH BUT...): "Harry took off his black school robes, removed 
his wand from his pocket, and stuck it inside the T-shirt he was going to wear under his 
Quidditch robes." clearly indicates that Harry does wear a T-shirt under his robes - but 
the fact this needs to be pointed out suggests it might be unusual.

7. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "Heavy rain was still splattering against the window 
as he got dressed in jeans and a sweatshirt; they would change into their school robes 
on the Hogwarts Express." Similar to 1 in my view - if they intended to put on their robes 
over their jeans and sweatshirts, would it say they were going to change? Change to me 
implies taking off the jeans and sweatshirt and putting on the robes.

8. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "one of the long spikes grazed his shoulder, ripping 
his robes -- He could feel it stinging" suggests that after the robes are ripped there is 
nothing beneath to protect his skin.

9. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "He took off his robes, pulled on the pyjamas, and 
got into bed." implies that once he takes off the robes, he pulls on the pyjamas - no 
other clothes mentioned.

10. (CLOTHES UNDERNEATH) "'We'd better change,' said Hermione at last, and all of 
them opened their trunks with difficulty and pulled on their school robes" certainly 
implies that they wear something under their robes. I suppose after 5 years as close 
friends, they might not care *that* much about modesty - but there's no mention of 
disrobing at all.

11. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "He threw his wand down on to his bedside table, 
pulled off his robes, stuffed them angrily into his trunk and pulled on his pyjamas." - 
same as 9.

12. (CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "All their teammates but Angelina were already in the 
changing room when they entered...

'Shut up,' said Ron, stony-faced, pulling on his own team robes for the first time. They 
fitted him well considering they had been Oliver Wood's, who was rather broader in the 
shoulder." implies clothing - Ron is changing in a room that has girls in it.

13. (CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "Harry and Ron pulled on their robes (Ron attempted 
to do his up back-to-front for several minutes before Alicia took pity on him and went to 
help)" - same as 12 - and would Alicia really be the one to help if he wasn't wearing 
anything. Even if standards of modesty are different at Hogwarts, surely Harry, or Fred 
and George would have stepped in in that case (-8

14. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "Snow was filling up the window now. Harry 
became aware that the knees of his robes were soaked through: Fang was drooling with 
his head in Harry's lap." implies nothing is worn under the robes - they are soaked 
through and Harry can feel it.

15. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "They pulled off their robes and put on pyjamas in 
silence" - as 9 and 11.

16. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "Everybody except Harry was riotously happy and 
talkative as they changed out of their robes into jeans and sweatshirts." - implies that 
they were not already wearing the jeans and sweatshirts.

17. (NO CLOTHES UNDERNEATH): "(Harry wanted to stamp on Ron's foot, but that 
sort of thing is much harder to bring off unnoticed when you're wearing jeans rather than 
robes.)" - jeans *RATHER THAN* robes - implies that it's one or the other normally.

A very mixed bag.

My only conclusion is that whether or not they wear anything underneath their robes is a 
matter of choice. Generally they don't, it would seem to me - but in cases where they 
know they may wind up changing in the presence of the opposite sex, they generally 
choose to do so.

Of course, it's important to realise that the Wizarding world *is* a somewhat different 
culture from the Muggle world. There may not be the same concerns about nudity, or 
changing.

Or perhaps, it's more specific. It may matter generally or not among friends. Or it may 
matter less among Quidditch team mates (or House mates - McGonnagall did say the 
House is something like a family - plenty of families where it matters less).

It may well be that similar ideas do apply - but we do need to at least be aware that the 
cultural norms in this regard may be different.

Yours Without Wax, Dreadnought
Shaun Hately | www.alphalink.com.au/~drednort/thelab.html
(ISTJ)       | drednort at alphalink.com.au | ICQ: 6898200 
"You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one
thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the 
facts. They alter the facts to fit the views. Which can be 
uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that 
need altering." The Doctor - Doctor Who: The Face of Evil
Where am I: Frankston, Victoria, Australia