Spinner's End (long)

[koinonia02]

No: HPFGUIDX 126239


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com:
 
Carol (message 126213)
 
> My point is that I can see "Spinner's End" being both the name of a
> street ending in a cul-de-sac and a house at the end of that 
> street. I won't try to speculate about whose house it is, but I'll 
> bet it's the place Harry goes after "the shortest stay ever" at 4 
> Privet Drive.

 
Finwitch (message 126218):
 
> I myself believe that as well. A street called Spinner's end (two 
> locations have been found on a map), a house located at the end of 
> it - AND possibly a Spinner died there.
  
> Famous spinners in literature:
> Legendary witch who put Sleeping Beauty to her famous sleep...
 
> The elf who could spin gold out of straw... -- what was his name?
 
> The Fates...
> 
> Arachne; and the goddess, Athene...


"K":

I would personally like to see 'Spinner's End' have a meaning other 
than a house on some street but surely that is a possibility. 
However, I do find 'The Fates' interesting. Below is some info. It's 
a bit long so feel free to skip to the bottom.
** my emphasis

~The Fates 

The Fates are mentioned in The Odyssey as the heavy Spinners.(The 
Odyssey, 07.097)


~Fate(s).The Fates are Clotho (with a spindle), Lachesis (with a 
scroll or globe), and Atropos  **(with a pair of scales or shears)
**. 


~The Fates, or Moirae, were the goddesses who controlled the destiny 
of everyone from the time they were born to the time they died. They 
were: Clotho, the spinner, who spun the thread of a person's life, 
Lachesis, the apportioner, who decided how much time was to be 
allowed each person, and Atropos, the inevitable, who cut the thread 
when you were supposed to die. Even though the other gods were 
almighty, and supposedly immortal, even Hera had reason to fear 
them. All were subject to the whims of the Fates. Ministers of the 
Fates were always oracles or soothsayers  **(seers of the future)**. 
The Fates were very important, but it is still unknown to who their 
parents were. There is some speculation that they might be the 
daughters of Zeus, however, this is debatable. 


~Clotho, a goddess from Greek mythology, is the youngest of the 
three Fates, but one of the oldest goddesses in Greek mythology. She 
is a daughter of Zeus and Themis. Each fate has a certain job, 
whether it be measuring thread, spinning it on a spinning wheel, 
or   **cutting the thread**  at the right length. Clotho is the 
spinner, and she spins the thread of human life with her distaff. 
The length of the string will determine how long a certain person's 
life will be. She is also known to be the daughter of Night, to 
indicate the darkness and obscurity of human destiny. No one knows 
for sure how much power Clotho and her sisters have, however, they 
often disobey the ruler, Zeus, and other gods. For some reason, the 
gods seem to obey them, whether because the fates do possess greater 
power, or as some sources suggest, their existence is part of the 
order of the Universe, and this the gods cannot disturb. 


~Atropos

In Greek mythology, Atropos was one of the three Moirae, the Fates, 
the female deities who supervised fate rather than determine it. 
Atropos was the fate who cut the thread or web of life. She was 
known as the "inflexible" or "inevitable" and cut this thread with 
the  **"abhorred shears."**   She worked along with Clotho, who spun 
the thread, and Lachesis, who measured the length. They were the 
daughters of Zeus and Themis (the goddess of order.) It is not clear 
whether the fates were superior to Zeus or if he was subject to them 
as mortals were. The Roman name of the fates are Nona, Decuma, and 
Morta. 
        

~Clotho was the spinner, Lachesis was the drawer of lots, and 
Atropos represented the inevitable end to life. This notion that 
human fate was spun around a person at birth by  **divine 
Spinners**  - in other words, the Fates - was popular in Greek 
mythology, poetry, and literature. Indeed, there is a compelling 
scene in the Odyssey of Homer that alludes to this concept of 
spinning fate. 

In time, the somewhat vague idea of three goddesses who supervised 
the  **spinning of human fate**  evolved into a more concrete 
concept. The Fates came to be identified as a trio of older females 
who handled the threads of human life. One of these threads was 
allocated to every person, and each goddess took her turn in 
manipulating this thread. Clotho selected the thread, Lachesis 
measured it, and Atropos  **cut this thread**  to signify the end of 
a person's existence. 
The Fates were known as Parcae (or sometimes, Fatae) in Roman 
mythology. 


~The Greek Creation Myth

In the darkness of the Greek creation myth there is a bird with 
black wings. This bird is making a golden egg from which the God of 
Love is coming. One of the shells from the egg becomes the sky, 
which is also called Uranus, while the other shell becomes the 
earth, Gaia. 

In the Norse creation story the world was made from an evil giant , 
while the world in the Greek creation story was made from an egg. 

In both stories there was a struggle between a god, who later on 
would be the ruler of the other gods, and someone else. In the Greek 
creation story, Zeus fought against his father while Odin fought 
against the giant, Ymir. I think the ruler of the gods had to show 
everyone that they were good and brave enough to be the leaders. 
Then the other gods and the humans could respect and trust them. It 
is also very interesting to draw parallels to Oedipus and Beowulf. 
Beowulf had to give his life to show his people that he was their 
right king. A king could never be afraid of death nor to struggle. 
Oedipus did not have to struggle physically, but instead he solved a 
riddle and that way he saved the people (B6). Not solving the riddle 
he would never have become the king. 

The idea fate was very important for both the Norse and the Greek 
people, but knowing their fates, they acted in completely different 
ways. The Greeks always tried to run away from their fate. 

~In Norse mythology they instead prepared themselves to meet fates.

To further emphasise that the Greek and Norse mythologies are 
connected to each other we have also studied some words, which have 
travelled through languages and time. 
Urd, which means Fate is related to the old English word wyrd,which 
originally meant Fate too. Today we have the word left as the  
***Weird Sisters***. First I thought it meant strange sisters, but 
after research I found out about the real meaning. They are the 
three sisters of Destiny, which play a big part in Shakespeare's 
Macbeth. (B5)


~In its later form, Wyrd is the Nordic/Anglo-Saxon variant of the 
myth of the 'three sisters of Fate', or 'three sisters of Destiny' 
(respectively, the Greek and Roman variants of the same myth-group) -
 though there are some important differences in practice (see Wyrd 
and Fate). The basic myth itself goes back at least six thousand 
years, into a common Indo-European ancestry which has long since 
been lost. 
In the Nordic variant, 'Wyrd' is actually the name of one of the 
three sisters: the counterparts in Wyrd to the Greek 'three sisters' 
Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos 

Like the Fates, the three Norns spin, weave and end our lives - 
though exactly which sister does which task is never very clear... 
Unlike the dispassionate Moirai - another Greek name for the Fates - 
the three Weird Sisters treat our lives as some kind of wyrd joke, 
to be played with, tossed around, confused, confounded; 
Another part of the imagery of Wyrd, which is less easily understood 
in practice, is that in the Nordic view they not only spin and weave 
our lives into a weird, twisted fabric, but maintain life itself: 
together, they live beside the Well of the World, and use its waters 
to tend the roots of Yggdrasill, the World Tree. They are all-
powerful: even the gods were subject to their own wyrd, according to 
Nordic myth, and would meet their end at the final cataclysmic 
Ragnarök. We can't argue with the Fates; neither can we argue with 
the Sisters of Weird - and yet they do provide us with choices, with 
some knowledge of where a choice will lead us... that strange sense 
of 'impending wyrd'...


Other Folklore:

In many cultures, threads are seen as being spirit pathways. In the 
Romanian folklore, it was once believed that a vampire traveled upon 
the moonlight spun **thread of weavers** to drink the blood of the 
sun and moon. This vampire, the Varcolai, would only depart into 
other celestrial spheres **if the thread was broken**.

>From OoP (not sure what page number):

The one good thing to be said for this lesson was that it was not a 
double period. By the time they had all finished reading the 
introduction of the book, they had barely ten minutes left for dream 
interpretation. At the table next to Harry and Ron, Dean had paired 
up with Neville, who immediately embarked on a long-winded 
explanation of a nightmare **involving a pair of giant scissors** 
wearing his grandmother's best hat; Harry and Ron merely looked at 
each other glumly.

___________________________________________________________________


It is the *cutting & shears* that grab my attention, especially 
since Neville has a dream about giant scissors.


~ with a pair of scales or shears

~ cutting the thread

~...web of life. She was known as the "inflexible" or "inevitable" 
and cut this thread with the  **"abhorred shears."
  
~ spinning of human fate

~cut this thread to signify the end of a person's existence. 

~ Weird Sisters.  -   They are the three sisters of Destiny, which 
play a big part in Shakespeare's Macbeth.

~ We can't argue with the Fates; neither can we argue with the 
Sisters of Weird - and yet they do provide us with choices, with 
some knowledge of where a choice will lead us... that strange sense 
of 'impending wyrd'...

and the dream...


~  Neville, who immediately embarked on a long-winded explanation of 
a nightmare **involving a pair of giant scissors** 

"K"