House Elves and Slavery (Nel Question ## 1 & 2)

[stickbook41]

No: HPFGUIDX 126460


bboyminn:
Kreacher is a crazy and flawed as the humans who raised him.
He is the product of the only frame of reference he has ever had;
cruel, heartless, self-serving, and irrational. How could he be any
different?

now stickbook:
I think the problem that a lot of us are having with that idea in
particular regards to Kreacher is that in the series there's SO MUCH
emphasis on overcoming a bad environment and ending up a good person.
 Harry, of course, springs immediately to mind, as does Sirius, Lupin,
and (to lesser degrees) several other Good Guys. The flip-side of that
coin is that those who don't overcome their bad environment end up
being unlikeable, like Draco Malfoy, whose family life must be very
similar to what Sirius's was.

It's worth pointing out that the only exception to this rule so far
seems to be Snape, but (as bboyminn pointed out with Dobby) we don't
know his whole backstory yet.

bboyminn:
As far as endorsement of the Black family racist views, I certainly
didn't see any endorsement. I saw the flaws, I saw the failings, I saw
the fanaticism, I saw the self-serving irrationality, but I saw no
endorsement.

stickbook:
But after Sirius instructed Kreacher to "get out," Kreacher didn't go
wait by a bush in the garden, he *chose* to go straight to the Death
Eaters.  And JKR, via Dumbledore, reminds us regularly that what makes
us who we are our choices.

The question is, Does this idea extend to house elves?  I tend to
think it does--Dobby (in CoS) didn't have any trouble thinking for
himself, even when it conflicted with his current master's values; and
after he continued to think for himself after he was freed, when his
freedom conflicted with the values of the elf community at large.

bboyminn:
Again, I can only say that this aspect of the story is about the
failings and follies of humans.

stickbook:
Is Kreacher a messed-up individual?  You bet.  Is he blameless due his
horrible environment?  I have a harder time with that one.

stickbook
who is shocked to be disagreeing with bboyminn!