House Elves & Slavery - plus Goblin thoughts

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 126580


--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "manawydan" <manawydan at n...> wrote:

> Ffred:
> 
> Is the message perhaps that the more humans meddle with house elves, 
> the worse it is for them? Shouldn't we just let them get on with
> what it's in their nature to do, and not try to alter them? Would 
> the result of Hermione's crusade be a species made up of Kreachers 
> and Winkys? Hermione can be understood for her perspective, but 
> WW-borns _know_ that not all sapients have minds that run on the 
> same tracks as our own.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ffred

bboyminn:

All very excellent points. I think it is very important for us to see
the various humanoid creatures as intelligent sentient sapient beings
each with there own unique set of character traits.

To your short comment about Goblins, I will add that they are
obviously shrewd and capable businessmen as well as superb craftmen.
In addition, they appear of have a fully developed and sophisticated
language which further marks their degree of intelligents. 

I believe house-elves are equally intelligent, and that their apparent
lack of language sophisication is a matter of education, not a lack of
ability.

While I agree completely with your paragraph which I quoted above, I
want to take this opportunity to re-enforce a point I have been making
 ad nauseam in addressing the House-Elf issue.

I agree that more human meddling is not need, and further agree that
we should just let the house-elves get on with doing what they do
best. I need to add that I don't see 'no problem'; indeed I do see a
problem, I do see something that needs to be fixed. But that thing
that needs fixing is not the Elves, it's the wizards.

Wizards need to enter into their agreement with house-elves with the
same sense of honor and commitment that the house-elves bring to the
arrangement. Sadly, as humans are inclined to do, we see a weakness or
a flaw in the House-Elves attitude and nature, and we exploit it to
our advantage. House-elves are unwaveringly loyal and obidient, and
that opens the door to abuse, exploitation, disrespect, and
mistreatment by wizards.

When wizards become as honorable as elves, the problem will be solved.

Just saying it again (...and again ...and again...)

A few further notes on Goblins-

When I think of Goblins vs Wizards, I'm reminded of how native people
almost universally viewed Europeans when they first met. The
Hawaiian's word for Europeans, now for all non-Hawaiian people, is
something like 'Holli' (or close to that). Translated it means
'stupid' or 'stupid ones'. When native Americans (N&S) met Europeans
they had the same reaction, these must be the stupidest people on
earth. How foolish of them to think that they can bend the forces of
nature to their will. Logically, one must live in harmony with nature
if they are to endure. 

There is the tale of native Americans selling Manhattan Island to the
Europeans for something like $15 in beads. But to the native
Americans, the joke was on the Europeans, how stupid of the them to
think that they can own what belongs to God. Humans are the guardians
and stewards of the land, only God can truly own it.

I think that reflect Goblin's attitudes toward wizards. I think at the
core of the many Goblin rebellions, was the Goblin trying to point out
to wizard how hopelessly and ridiculously misguided the wizards were
in trying to bring anything and everything into their dominion and
under their control. 

A good example is when wizards were setting up the Dept for the
Control of Magical Creatures, and were trying to find a way to
classify various magic creatures; whether beast, being, spirit, or other. 

At first, they felt language was the key; if a creature could speak,
it was therefore intelligent making it a being. Goblins taught trolls
how to speak a few basic sentences and brought them before the
committee. Of course, the wizards thought that the Goblins were just
trying to be disruptive. But I think the Goblins were trying to point
out how stupid it was for wizards to think that it was their job to
classify and control other perfectly intelligent beings.

I suspect Goblins look down on wizards as being erogant,
self-centered, and somewhat simple-minded, and can't imagine what make
the humans think that they have a right to control anyone or anything.

Again, re: Goblin/wizard relations, and despite many very bloody
Goblin rebellions, it has always been the wizards who need to be
fixed, not the Goblins, Elves, or Centaurs.

Just a thought.

Steve/bboyminn