Trial of Snape/ cultural differences between WW and ours

[quigonginger]

No: HPFGUIDX 128366

Alla said: (after major snippage) 
Several things going on here. I said many times that I don't think 
> that they are mutually exclusive.
> 
> First - I absolutely ENJOY Snape as part of the story. I do NOT 
want 
> him out of the story, absolutely not. I would also never say that 
> JKR should not write him as mean character.
> 
> But, I absolutely, most definitely WANT Snape to change at the END 
> of the series, not now. I will be dissapointed, if he will not 
> change. I think it is my right as a reader to think about what 
> direction I want the character to go. In fact, the hope that Snape 
> will change is what keeps me from thinking of him as "love to hate" 
> character  and instead  I am still on "love/hate" level.
> 
> Am I making sense? As JKR's creation, as literary character, I will 
> always like Snape. From within the story, if he will be the same at 
> the end, I will be annoyed.

Ginger:  Ah, ha!  Putting it that way, I do see that we have a 
similar outlook.  I have envisioned numerous outcomes for most of the 
characters (not Madam Marsh, but she's probably going to get in there 
sometime) in all sorts of situations.

I have tried to figure out the last battle: how they will get there, 
what they will do there, and where they will go from there.  Mental 
fan-fic, if you will.

There are a ton of things I'd like to see.  I doubt JKR has many, if 
any at all, in mind.  Before OoP, I wanted to see Neville come out 
strong, and he did!  I wanted to see Harry and Sirius sharing a 
bachelor pad for a couple of months after Hogwarts and LV's defeat.  
That won't happen.  Then there's ships, but I won't go on about 
that.  

I have imagined Snape going on to a "potion development lab" type of 
place.  I have imagined him dying (sad, I know).  I even joked to 
someone that he would marry Ginny and live next door to Ron and 
Hermione on one side and Bill and Remus on the other and during the 
Quidditch off-season and have Harry stay on as a guest and all get 
together for tea.  I think it had something to do with a soul 
transplant after a dementor sucking.  (Actually, it was longer than 
that, and off the cuff, so I don't remember it exactly, but that's 
the gist of it.) 

It seems from what you said, that you have your "dreams" for Snape, 
but still see him as JKR's character to do with as she pleases.  I do 
the same.  

There's a fine line between dream and demand.  We dream.  Others I 
have seen demand.  It's the demanding that puts me off.  At the end 
of the day, it's JKR's world.

That's where the whole "trial" comes in.  Are we "trying" a character 
in a book for acting in a way that furthers the plot and sets a 
certain mood for the scenes in which he participates (and which he 
does at the author's command)?  Or are we "trying" a person 
for "crimes" he has committed, even though we can't agree if they are 
even crimes?

> Ginger, (previously)
>  who was a very Snape-like Sunday School teacher at one time, 
> > and it went well.
> 
> Alla:
> 
> Hmmm, please allow me to challenge this phrase. :-) Let me explain 
> why. 
> To me  the definition of Snape-like teacher  must ABSOLUTELY 
include 
> the fact that said teacher has a grudge against dead parent of one 
> of his/her student AND  because of that goes out of his way to make 
> the said student life absolutely miserable.

Ginger:  My definition of a Snape-like teacher is one who doesn't put 
up with any disrespect, wandering attention, or general tomfoolery.
The students learn whether they want to or not.  That is the 
teacher's job, and if the kids don't make it easy, that's part of the 
challenge.

Example:  If they didn't stay in their seats, I would plop them down 
in their chairs and say, "The seat of your pants goes on the seat of 
the chair.  Your back goes on the back of the chair.  Your legs go by 
the legs of the chair.  The parts of the chair are named so that a 
complete nincompoop could understand how to use it.  Do you have any 
questions?"  And they sat.  Or else.

Alla:
> That is probably the main reason I think Snape shouldn't be allowed 
> nowhere around students. Even though he does it to one 
student,where 
> is the guarantee that if someone else will not insult him during 
his 
> long life as WW, he won't do the same thing to said person's child?

Ginger:  This is where I get confused:  Do you mean that 
he "shouldn't be allowed" in the sense that (1)a RL teacher like him 
shouldn't be allowed?  Or (2)that you, as a reader, would love to see 
DD step in and tell him to be nice or he (Snape) will be fired (or in 
some other way change him, ie personal epiphany)?  Or (3) in the 
sense that JKR shouldn't write him like that?  (Which doesn't sound 
like what you've been saying before.)

I can see (1) the RL comparison if one holds those views about 
teachers.  I can see (2) the "dream" train of thought I spoke of 
earlier.  But usually when I see "he shouldn't be allowed" or 
something of that nature, it strikes me (3) as if the person saying 
such a thing is saying that it shouldn't be in the story.  Or is 
asserting themselves (as opposed to wishing) to dictate the future of 
the story.    

I guess my question to those who say "something shouldn't be like 
this" is:  How do you mean that?  Is it one of the 3 mentioned above 
or something different?

Personally, I wouldn't like to see Snape change.  He gets all the 
good lines.  I've said it before:  I love Snape because he gets to 
say things I can't because I'm too polite.  It's kind of a vicarious 
way of letting my inner nastiness have its day without hurting a real 
person.

I did a lot of snipping so this wouldn't get long, and failed 
miserably.

Ginger, celebrating her last night of work at her part-time job 
tonight, and her entry into "semi-retirement" aka, a 40 hour/week job 
with actual days off!  Bliss!