Christianity in HP / Snape-like teachers

[AyanEva]

No: HPFGUIDX 128418

Tonks in post 128407:

> I have never said that Harry or any of the WW or MW folks are 
> Christian.  What I have said it that JKR is using Christian 
> symbolism in the books to teach what is basically a Christian 
> story.  You can all buy me a butterbeer at the end of book 7, 
> when you say "ya, Tonks, you were right."

Geoff in post 128392:
<snip>

> So, Hogwarts joins the rest of society in having Christmas trees,
> presents, carols, Christmas dinner etc. Agreed, some of these 
> have come from non-Christian roots but are still there to jog the
> collective memories of participants to remind them of what 
> Christians consider are the basic foundations of what life is all 
> about, to what we see as the real meaning of worship, love and 
> service to others.

AyanEva: I'm answering to these two statements because they tie in to
my argument. Tonks' statement first. But see, that's the point. It's
not strictly a Christian story. That would assume that the basic
tenants of the Christian faith are peculiar to Christianity; they're
not. So, the HP stories can be read in a distinctly non-Christian
fashion. You'll have to split that butterbeer with everyone else! ;-)
And now Geoff's. But the point that I think some of us are trying to
make (correct me if I'm wrong "some of us") is that we exclude the
worship bit and concentrate on love, service to others, hope for a new
beginning and rebirth, and hope for humanity. That's neccessarily,
pagan in origin since the first religions had pantheons of gods, but
it's not exclusive to paganism. Nor is it exclusive to Christianity.
There's nothing requiring us to read it that way in HP, although we're
free to do so.


Lea in post 128309:

> IMO, JKR included Christmas to represent the Christian celebration 
> of the birth of Jesus Christ, however, wouldn't one suspect that
> Hogwarts, just like many other schools, would have children with a
> variety of religious backgrounds?

AyanEva:

Good post, I can get on board with this. The last part of that
sentence is the key. Just as students of other faiths would see the
observance of Christmas and Easter differently, non-Christian readers
see the observance of Christmas and Easter differently. It's just a
matter of perspective, not that anyone person is right or wrong in
their interpretation, but that there are other ways to read the books
that are just as correct as a Christian-influenced reading. 


Annemehr in post 128403:

> I think, in discussing a fictional character, it's the reader who
> grants (or does not grant) redemption. 


AyanEva: 

I just wanted to say that this is a great answer to the question of
redemption in HP. I'm more comfortable with this, I think. I hope JKR
takes that path; leave it up to the reader. This is why I don't really
like the idea of only one faith being present as an under current in
HP; it's presumptious and not fair to other readers who don't share
the same faith (or don't have any any particular faith; rather a moral
code that's independent of faith) to be forced to accept someone elses
terms of redemption. It could certainly happen, in which case I'd be
quite disappointed, but I honestly don't think it will. 

So far, JKR hasn't addressed the question of redemption directly, as you pointed out in the case with Barty Crouch Sr, and with good cause. If she wanted everyone to look at the HP series from the same perspective, I really think that she would have provided a very clear answer of whether Barty Crouch Sr. was redeemed or not. Personally, I think Crouch Sr's attempt to correct a wrong past decision is enough for redemption, but that's just me. What matters most to me is the final balance; the person *tried*, whether they intended to or not, in one way or another to atone for their prior actions. A good deed, if sufficiently important (and what makes it "sufficient" is a judgement call), will balance out a bad deed. I'm not sure if it's in the actual text of the Koran, but I do know that that concept is kind of how the afterlife worked often worked in early Islamic culture. Good was balanced against bad, in a fashion. If you did something bad, but had good cause, there was a good chance that it would balance itself out. I hope the first part of this makes this HP-related!
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And now for something completely different....*large animated foot
squashes figure of man*

Ginger in post 128366:

> My definition of a Snape-like teacher is one who doesn't put
> up with any disrespect, wandering attention, or general tomfoolery.
> The students learn whether they want to or not. That is the
> teacher's job, and if the kids don't make it easy, that's part of 
> the challenge.
>
> Example: If they didn't stay in their seats, I would plop them 
> down in their chairs and say, "The seat of your pants goes on the 
> seat of the chair. Your back goes on the back of the chair. Your
> legs go by the legs of the chair. The parts of the chair are named 
> so that a complete nincompoop could understand how to use it. Do 
> you have any questions?" And they sat. Or else.

AyanEva:

I'm going for my MA in Art History and will probably go on to teach
once I have my PhD. If I get college freshman, in particular, I've
always imagined myself as a Snape/McGonagal like teacher. You might
hate the class but I'll be darned if you don't learn something in it.
I slept through my 1st survey course, when I bothered to show up, and
couldn't believe that the proffessor tolerated that. No, in my class
you'd show up and you'd learn. If you're not going to try, don't
bother showing up; I'll be more than happy to flunk you. 

Snape's not out to be anyone's best friend; he's there to drill some
education into the heads of students who would probably prefer to fool
around and play. And I think he does that successfully. He's meaner
than I would be, but I'm not above sarcasm to chastise someone into
doing what they're supposed to be doing. Kids are coddled way too
much, IMO. My parents didn't coddle me and if I have kids, I'm going
to push them. In class, there would be no curve and there would be
essays and pop quizzes. I think that what Snape knows is that the best
way to learn is when you give students the basics and then make them
flesh things out on their own. Research and having to teach your peers
who are having trouble is a really good way to get information into
your own head. 

When correcting the work of my peers, I'm not ashamed to admit that
their papers looked as if I'd slit my wrist over them; I always used
red ink. But I wanted them to really get it right and I was always so
disappointed because my peers took it easy when reviewing my papers.
Feedback is good; I don't care if my feelings get hurt in the process,
my work will be that much better in the end. I think that's kind of
Snape's philosophy. Talking in class? I'd make them come to the front
and share the juicy story. Didn't do your homework and you don't have
a good reason? No credit AND you get a question on the next quiz/test
on the homework that you didn't do. That way, they'd still have to
learn at least some of it to answer the question. Snape's meaner than
he has to be, but I think I would learn a lot in his class. 


AyanEva