Christians in HP - in a purely historical way(was:Re: Christianity in HP)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 128468

>>Tonks:
<snip>
>Yes, JKR could well be using the Christian religious celebrations 
of Christmas and Easter in a secular way, just as they are observed 
in secular society by folks that are not Christian.  I agree that is 
a possibility.  I have never said that Harry or any of the WW or MW 
folks are Christian.<
<snip>

Betsy:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the the bulk of the 
characters in the Harry Potter series *are* Christians.  At least, 
that's what they'd mark on a survey.  I'm not going to try and guess 
which denominations or level of church involvement, but I'd lay down 
a pretty penny that the four founders were Christians (Catholics 
most probably, based on the time period, and possibly even members 
of the clergy).  I'm sure that Hogwarts used to hold chapel once a 
week (maybe even once a day at one point), and I'm relatively 
confident that all old pure-blood families are C of E.

I base this on two things, history and canon.  We know that the 
witches and wizards of the WW brush shoulders with the Muggle world 
quite often.  Entrances to the WW in London are placed smack-dab in 
the middle of the Muggle world, the Black family home (purest of the 
pure-bloods) is surrounded by Muggles, and the Prime Minister not 
only knows of the existence of the WW, he assists them with their 
problems, from time to time.  My point here is this, the Muggle 
world *does* affect the WW.

We also know that when Christianity came to the British Isles, 
witches and wizards were not a secret society - not officially 
anyway.  Converts were made, enough so that the Hogwart ghosts have 
a few nuns and at least one friar floating around the place.  The 
fact that the friar has enough pull to become an official house 
ghost suggests that Christian witches and wizards were not a 
marginalized minority.  

I think it's not outside the realm of possibility that there were 
orders within the Catholic church made up entirely of witches or 
wizards.  If the Prime Minister today knows about the WW, it makes 
sense that the power brokers of the time knew about the WW, and the 
Pope was a mighty power broker back in the day.  Wouldn't it make 
sense to have orders where witches and wizards could use their magic 
to help strengthen and enrich the church without freaking out the 
Muggle clergy? (There could well be wizarding orders to this day, in 
the Harry Potter world.)

When England went through its religous wars (long after Hogwarts' 
founding) I believe it became treasonous to be Catholic.  And just 
as I speculate that the Pope knew about the WW, I'd imagine King 
Henry VIII, Queen Mary I, and Queen Elizabeth I knew about the WW 
too.  So I imagine there was some pressure on the WW to convert 
(under Henry and Elizabeth, anyway), just as there had been on the 
Muggle world.  (I would also imagine there'd be the same 
attractions - if my creaky knowledge of this time period serves me 
English landowners were allowed to take the riches of any Catholic 
church on their lands.  I would think landowning wizards would have 
the same privileges, and the pure-blood families, as we've seen 
them, would most likely take full advantage.)  By the time the WW 
went completely underground in 1692 I would imagine the Anglican 
church had taken a firm hold with British wizards.

As per canon we know that Harry, his parents and Sirius Black are 
Christians. (I'm not arguing a deep religous faith here - just a 
statistical background.)  Harry was christened, by his parents, and 
Sirius became his godfather (I believe most churches prefer the 
godparents to be the same religion as the child).  Sirius was also 
singing a *very* Christian Christmas carol in OotP, one the choir 
was not allowed to sing at my very secular public school in NYC.  
True, he mixed the words up, and God rest ye merry gentleman became 
God rest ye merry Hippogriffs, but the fact he knew the carol and 
enjoyed singing it suggests that he's been raised a Christian.  (If 
he'd been converted via James or Lily, I feel like the song would be 
so new and holy to him, he wouldn't mess with the words.)

There's nothing in canon that suggests that being a witch or wizard 
would go against a monotheistic faith.  Magic is presented in an 
almost scientific manner.  No gods or goddesses are called down.  
Actually, there's very little chanting at all.  You call out the 
*name* of the spell, but you don't call on an outside power.  
Astrology and tea-leaf reading, etc., are treated as a bit of a joke 
and not really real, and even the Centaurs seem to be doing 
something more akin to chaos theory than out and out star-reading.  
Compare that to the way magic is portrayed in "Buffy the Vampire 
Slayer" where Willow was *constantly* calling on various gods and 
goddesses and you can see that there's nothing really there, in the 
Harry Potter world, to contradict a Christian witch or wizards faith 
(or a Jewish or Muslim, for that matter).

[As an aside - it's interestign that the only chanting came from the 
*really* evil wizard in an act of what amounts to a form of 
necromancy (GoF).  Other Christian tenents were broken too.  
Deliberate dis-honoring of a parent (Tom's father), an act of idol 
worship with Peter worshiping Voldemort with the sacrifice of his 
hand, and a virgin sacrifice with Harry's blood being taken.  And 
didn't it all take place on Christian holy ground?  All in all, a 
very bad thing.]

I don't think *all* the students at Hogwarts are Christian.  JKR has 
been too deliberate in creating a diverse student body for that.  I 
imagine that the statistics for various religions at Hogwarts are 
similar to the statistics for the population of England.  And I'm 
betting that quite a few kids are a member of a church in name 
only.  I doubt we're going to see a chapel scene or any character at 
prayer.  But I do think that when Hogwarts closes for Christmas and 
Easter, they really are closing for Christmas and Easter.  Even if 
for most folks it's all about the presents and the chocolate eggs.

Betsy, who grits her teeth whenever a character in a HP fanfic 
refers casually to "the gods", for reasons of pure accuracy