The prophecy - a maverick view....

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 128473

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Geoff Bannister"
<gbannister10 at a...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "M.Clifford" <Aisbelmon at h...> 
> wrote:
> 
> Valky:
> > In your original post you said that the prophecy
> > seemed to contradict the facts, and that the words of the prophecy
> > implied by 'neither can live while the other survives' that   
> > neither is alive and that one of these two is quite possibly dead.  
> > I expanded on this with the word Irony because I wondered if "The 
> > Boy who *Lived*" was an ironic misdirection by JKR placed in plain 
> > view at the beginning of the series. 
> 
> 
> Geoff:
> 
> What I actually said was:
> 'But then we reach "and either must die at the hand of the other for
> neither can live while the other survives". This to me is a
> contradiction in terms. Both Harry and Voldemort are alive. This
> contradicts the prophecy; one of them should be dead and one should
> be surviving
. So what do we make of this? '
> 
> I did /not/ imply the interpretation which you put on that - I 
> merely wondered what we are to make of this apparent contradiction.
> 

Valky:
Fair enough, but later I said that if JKR said somebody is dead then
they are dead, that is her own assertion, and the prophecy says that
one of them is dead. As you pointed out eloquently better than I did.
So can we doubt it?

Geoff:
> I had not latched onto the hypothesis which you were putting  
> forward. This is why I asked for your clarification which you have 
> now kindly provided. It is obvious that our thoughts were not  
> running in parallel hence my confusion about your comments.

Valky:
Ok my mistake Geoff, sorry, but something has hit me now that you have
highlighted the section of the prophecy that you had referred to. 
There has been speculation around here about the meaning of either, it
could mean 'both' or 'one or the other'.
Now if I follow the premise that one of them is dead and the other
'survived' then it follows that 'either', in the prophecy, means
'both', because one has already died. 

Using deduction -
Only Harry has the power to defeat the Dark Lord, so if the dead one
is Voldie then he died at the hand of Harry.. this hasn't happened

If one of them IS dead then it follows that he died by the hand of the
other and that one of them has used his 'hand' to kill the other...
this is what Voldie did to Harry in GH

Deducing from this that Harry is 'dead?':S and that it's not over,
then it follows that it cannot be 'one or the other must die at the
hand of the other' or it would already be over. 

Conclusion - It must mean Both and Harry really must kill Voldemort.
He doesn't have a choice between kill or be killed... all thats left
for him to do is kill Voldie.

now thats Maverick!!

lol ;D
Valky