Religion in US, UK, Hogwarts Schools (was I saw (more than) three ships ...

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 128531

>>SSSusan: 
<snip>
>I am inclined to agree with those who've argued that Hogwarts 
itself does not seem to be a Christian school.  I simply don't see 
any evidence for it.  I also don't go to the other extreme and 
assume it's a place where no student practices a relgious faith.  
But to argue that "God Rest Ye Merry, Hippogriff" is evidence that 
Hogwarts must be a Christian school, based upon what happens here in 
the U.S. just doesn't quite work out, I don't think.<

>>deborahhbbrd:
<snip>
>And does this explain the sense of bewilderment that I sometimes 
detect when American posters seem to long for evidence of Christian 
beliefs in the WW? Not in the minds of the author or her readers, 
but in the characters themselves?<
<snip>

>>Hells:
<snip>
>I just think that with references this big, we do not need to 
search for hidden meaning in Sirius's carol singing.<
<snip>

Betsy:
Oh dear. I think my posts have been completely misunderstood.  I'm 
really not all that interested in the presence or level of faith in 
the Harry Potter characters.  My only interest was in pointing out 
that the WW of Britian was closely linked to the Muggle world of 
Britian and so its traditions, etc., were shaped by a Christian 
background.  Therefore breaks at Hogwarts center around old 
Christian traditions of Christmas and Easter rather than the Winter 
Solstice or the Spring whatever.  And therefore the Black family 
more than likely held their weddings and funerals in an Anglican 
church rather than an ancient stone circle.

The reason I hung so much on Sirius' carol choice was that here we 
had a pure-blood wizard, raised in the British WW, who probably 
rarely, if ever, set foot in the Muggle world (so uninfluenced by 
tv, radio, etc.) and he was aware enough of Christmas carols to a) 
sing them, and b) riff on them a little.  Which suggests to me that 
he's probably grown up hearing them, and that they aren't strange 
new weird Muggle songs he'd sing just to irritate his folks.

I do not think Hogwarts is a "Christian" school - anymore than Eaton 
is.  However it is a school that was obviously (to me) founded in a 
Christian culture and must have had, at one time, a mainly Christian 
staff and students.  I'm positive that the current student body is 
made up of students of several different religious beliefs including 
those with no religion at all (JKR has done a great job at showing 
diversity).  I believe that the British WW is just as secular as 
current Britian, but with a Christian foundation, like Britian. (JKR 
has grounded her world as much in the current world as possible, I 
think, to help encourage the suggestion to her young readers that 
the WW is just around the corner.)

My main reason for posting the arguments I did was because I think 
there's a tendency to think, ooh witchcraft, must be pagan, and then 
suddenly all the HP characters are saying things like, "gods, he's 
cute," in various fanfics and it strikes me as sloppy characterizing 
because they're overlooking all the cues that the WW is similar 
enough to the RW that most characters, and all the ones we've met 
(barring maybe Trelawny) would use the much more common "God" as a 
swear word.  (The humans anyway.  The Centaurs and Goblins, etc., 
seem to have their own culture, so I've no ideas on them.)

>>Hells:
<snip>
>I'm sure that some of the students at Hogwarts are from a religious 
background, and that the school caters for them, but this is 
needless information that doesn't need to be in the books.
<snip>

Betsy:
I absolutely agree.  I think it would have been a mistake for JKR to 
show obvious signs of one religious faith (or any for that matter) 
because it would have inevitably alienated some of her readers.  And 
I don't think it would have added anything to the story.  All I'm 
trying to say is that the British WW, like the British RW has a 
Christian tradition.  In other words, I seriously doubt the British 
WW is a throwback to the days of the Druids.

[a bit OT here]
>>deborahhbbrd:
<snip>
>It seems to me, and this is pretty vague because I've never been
there, that the USA is a much more religion-minded place - there is
still social pressure on people to go to church, and it is assumed
that normal, decent people will always choose to do so. (It has often
been suggested that nobody with a naturalistic turn of mind could
succeed in American politics.) Am I right?<
<snip>

Betsy:
The US is really too big and diverse to classify that easily.  I 
grew up in NYC, lived in the Midwest for several years, and now live 
in the South.  In NYC there was a *very* strong seperation between 
church and state.  Here in the South the state Electric Board (a 
government entity) opens its meetings with a prayer that ends 
with "in Jesus' name we pray," which shocked me, but my husband says 
is perfectly normal. I do doubt an atheist could get elected 
President, but every state and county is different and I'm sure 
you'd be able to find all types and beliefs in various elected 
positions.  But as to naturalisim, I believe Thomas Jefferson (an 
early President and founding father) was a naturalist.

As to church attendence, some folks I knew in the Midwest went (I 
had a boss tell me she'd prayed for all of us at work at her revival 
meeting), some didn't.  I didn't see any signs of judging.  In NYC 
not many folks went weekly, though quite a few went to important 
events (i.e. Easter mass). But many didn't go at all, and again, I 
didn't see any signs of folks being judged as less than decent. One 
of the first things folks ask here in this Southern small town is 
which church you go to (mostly so they can then ask, and do you know 
so-and-so, so that might be a small town thing).  Honestly, I think 
that there would be some worries here if someone didn't attend any 
church ever, but I think it would be because of a genuine worry 
about the state of that person's soul (folks are pretty religious 
here) then if they were a decent person or not.   But I would say 
most people I know go because they want to, not because of social 
pressure. 

Betsy, who also would add that the Harry Potter books are quite well 
loved in this small town, with a big summer reading program centered 
on Harry Potter and well attended by the local kids -- just to throw 
a wrench into that particular stereotype.