Vicarious Retribution (long)

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 128858


 In Post 1128802 Ginger wrote:

snip
> By avenging Harry through others, she allows the reader a sense of 
> justice.  Each character gets his comeuppance (or in Snape's case, 
> dropdownance) for the way they have treated Harry.  Kind of a "what 
> comes around, goes around" philosophy.  
snip 
> 
> I also think she plays it for laughs with the first two scenes, and 
> for insight into character in the Snape's case.  Not that there 
isn't 
> a laugh there if one is the sort to find it.  I can't speak for JKR 
> on that one, but I got a laugh out of it.
> 
> So there you have it.  Vicarious retribution.  Harry won't get back 
> at people, but JKR will.  Harry does not need to seek revenge, nor 
do 
> the Snape, Draco and Dudley have to seek atonement.  It has been 
> taken care of.

Potioncat:
Somewhere, JKR has also commented on the fact that kids either like 
the stories or they don't but at least they don't over analyze them. 
Of course that's why this isn't HPfK.  I think Ginger is on to 
something...whether anyone likes the idea or not. Look at this quote:

 ++++++++++++++++  
America Online chat transcript, AOL.com, 19 October 2000 
AOL Live presented an exclusive live chat with "Harry Potter" creator 
J.K. Rowling.  

Ms. Rowling, which character besides Harry is your favorite, and why? 

I think that would have to be Hagrid -- but I love Ron and Hermione 
too, and I also love writing characters like Gilderoy Lockhart, 
Snape, the Dursleys... it's such fun doing horrible things to them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

So, she enjoys the retribution. We are supposed to laugh. And isn't 
there a quote somewhere about JKR enjoying some dastardly scene she'd 
written for HBP?

Some of the examples, which I snipped, gave me nothing but amusement 
the first time I read them. And it wasn't until some thought went 
into the scene, or more likely, a more sensitive member of the list 
pointed out the situation, that I began to question things. 

But you know, in real life, Life-Isn't-Fair. And how often do we 
cheer when the car that cut us off a few moments ago is stopped by a 
red light, or trapped in a slower line of traffic as we go by? Or if 
the office jerk spills coffee all over his shirt?  

Of course, in that case, it's random life delivering the justice, not 
another person dishing out an unfair dose. So... I just don't know 
what JKR's up to. But she seems to be having fun at it.

>From Catkind's Post of 128852 Cat-Kind wrote:

> Magda: 
> > How convenient for the good guys - but what if they happen to be
> > wrong about whether someone is "so obviously guilty of 
wrongdoings"? 
> > Does it somehow not count? 

Potioncat:
I agree. And, after all, isn't that Professor Snape is doing to 
Harry? He's sure Harry is guilty of pride, rule breaking and any 
number of misbehaviors and so dishes out retribution which is every 
bit as fair as Dudley's pigtail. (Come to think of it, Dudley's tail 
is for his father's actions...)


> 
> catkind:  

> 
> Maybe it's kind of cheating though, if we have to revert to
> meta-thinking to explain things.  It sends all sorts of confused
> messages to people who don't understand these rules.  Or perhaps
> children have an intuitive grasp of Vicarious Retribution - they 
don't
> think so much about what exactly which characters know as us
> over-analysing Grown-Ups.
> 
> The one scene I can't subsume here is the pensieve scene.  I don't
> think the authorial voice is trying to pass that off as Vicarious
> Retribution, at least to judge by Harry's reaction. Yet it does fit
> the pattern of doing nasty things to nasty people.  Is JKR asking us
> to question the earlier incidents by making this one so blatant?
> 
> catkind, who as usual has questions not answers, and is hoping Valky
> will call it wise :-P

Potioncat:
Questions, not answers...it's the nature of us cats. ;-)

I think your question "Is JKR asking us to question..." is a good 
one. Afterall, throughout the series we have examples of both 
situations. Are we supposed to think? Or in JKR's mind is it very 
different? Can't get that quote out of my head, and can't keep 
thinking how we like to see "bad" guys get it, however it comes about!