Hermione's Hypocrisy?(long)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 129106

>>Sophierom:
<snip>
>So again, it's not that Hermione can't recognize Kreacher's 
emotions; it's that she can't understand why he is so loyal to the 
Black family and therefore so bitter toward the new residents of 
Grimmauld Place.<
<snip>

>>a_svirn:
<snip>
>My point is that Hermione doesn't TRY to understand. She just 
dismisses it.< 

Betsy (jumping in):
I think Hermione does try to understand why Kreacher is the way he 
is, and she comes to the conclusion that he's been horribly mentally 
abused.  As she tells Ron and Ginny, "...[Kreacher] is not in his 
right mind, he doesn't know what he's --" (I'll assume she'd have 
said "saying" or "doing" here). (OotP scholastic p.108)

And, frankly, Kreacher is quite obviously suffering from some sort 
of mental disconnect, so I don't think Hermione is too far off base 
here.
 
>>Sophierom:
>We need to ask WHY Hermione has "too blunt a will" in this case.  
Is it because she wants to gain a name for herself as liberator of 
the house-elves? We've seen no indication of that.<
<snip> 
 
>>a_svirn:
>Yes, I think, we have. First of all the way she goes about the 
business of defending Elves. After an all too brief hunger strike 
she spends extra hours in the library. One would have thought she is 
doing what she usually does best – researching, but no! She is  
making the SPEW badges. She draws up a list of members and makes 
Harry and Ron treasurer and secretary. Strange, isn't it?<

Betsy:
Not really.  Looking at every other human and/or animal rights 
organization in the world, a large list of memembers is a prime way 
of getting some sort of power.  No one was going to listen to a 
little twelve years-old Muggle-born witch, but if the entire student 
body of Hogwarts started marching for house-elf rights (and perhaps 
brought about the freedom of the Hogwarts elves) the WW would be 
forced to sit up and take notice.  

>>a_svirn:
>She delights in developing this stupid bureaucracy and inventing  
ridiculous names yet she doesn't spare even a fleeting thought on 
how elves come to be enslaved and what kind magic is involved. I do 
think it's because she doesn't really interested in elves; she just 
wants to prove her point.<

Betsy:
That is her fatal flaw (with more than just the house elves).  
Hermione sees so clearly, in CoS, how wrong elf enslavement is and 
how much good SPEW can do she cannot imagine students not wanting to 
join.  And she cannot imagine an elf not wanting to be treated with 
respect and dignity (as she defines those terms).  I imagine she 
thought Harry and Ron's reluctance was more laziness than anything 
else. 

>>a_svirn:
>And then in the OotP when they are discussing future careers she 
confesses that she is not really interested in Banking or in being 
an Auror, but wants to do something *really* worthwhile, like 
continuing the SPEW onto the new level. It does look like she sees 
herself as a budding politician and wants to capitalize on the house-
elves situation.<

Betsy:
Actually, I think Hermione sees herself more as a budding political 
activist.  And I think she's genuinely interested in her cause.  I 
don't think she sees this as merely a way to break into government, 
but I think she does think (or hope) that she'll be capable of 
bringing some major changes to the WW.  (Which is unfriendly enough 
to her kind that I don't blame her eagerness to change things one 
bit.)

>>Sophierom:
<snip>  
>As someone who works with teenagers, I know that it's all 
too "cool" to be apathetic.  It would be easier to be like Ron, who 
shrugs and says "nutters."< 

>>a_svirn:
>Actually I don't think that Ron's being is apathetic. I think that 
his or Harry's attitude to elves much more mature, in fact, than 
Hermione's, because they, and especially Harry, do see elves as 
persons.<

Betsy:
Ooh, I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you here.  I don't 
think Ron sees house-elves as people at all.  I think he ranks them 
up there with garden gnomes - a bit more useful, but not capable of 
too much thought.  I do agree that Harry (who strikes me as 
naturally empathetic) sees house-elves as people, and so he sees 
Kreacher as quite capable of choosing the wrong side. 

Harry has the most mature reaction to house elves, I think.  But I 
think Ron has the least. Hermione might not see house elves as 
individuals, but she at least sees that they need to be treated 
better.  Ron doesn't seem to think there's any problem, which is 
quite frankly, wrong.  He's holding blindly to tradition, and 
there's nothing mature about that. 

>>a_svirn:
<snip> 
> But Hermione does not see Kreacher as a person, I'm afraid. You 
keep saying that she learns to empathise, but in reality she would 
treat Winky and Kreacher (and probably even Dobby) with 
equal "kindness" because for her they a very much one like another.<

Betsy:
I thought Sophierom was quite clear in saying that Hermione was 
learn*ING* to empathise.  (I think she had Hermione on step one of a 
three step process.)  Yes, Hermione treats all house elves as one 
indistinguishable mass (though that might change with the closing 
events of OotP) and she will make no headway until she learns to see 
them as individuals and starts taking their view point into 
consideration.  But I think Hermione is trying, and I also think 
that empathy is the thing that comes very hard to her.  It's part of 
the reason she was such a social outcast in PS/SS, and it's what 
keeps her from a leadership position in the DA in OotP.  Hermione is 
highly intelligent, and quite logical, and I think both of those 
traits are quite natural to her.  Empathy may come a bit more 
slowly, but I think it is coming.

>>a_svirn:
<snip? I think I snipped here>
>She treats Kreacher rather like a pet; an old one who's outlived 
his usefulness, but still has a claim on his master's protection.<

Betsy:
I don't see evidence for this at all.  Hermione treats Kreature like 
a much suffering victim.  She simplifies the reasons behind his 
suffering, and therefore winds up with a simple solution (treat 
Kreature kindly, set him free, and he'll be all better) but she 
*doesn't* treat him like a mindless animal.
 
>>a_svirn:
>Yet his is not a pet, he IS a person, and his affections cannot be 
bought with a piece of snack and a nice leather collar. This is very 
simple really, and something, both Harry and Ron are able to 
understand.<

Betsy:
Again, I think you're completely wrong about Ron here.  I think Ron 
*does* see Kreacher as a once useful pet "who's outlived his 
usefulness".  And though Ron might be too kind a wizard to initially 
think Kreacher should be killed (or put down), by the time Harry 
gets to Grimmauld Place I think Ron is quite ready for Kreacher to 
die.

What Harry recognizes about Kreacher, what Hermione won't allow 
herself to believe, is the veracity of his hate.  Hermione cannot 
think that Kreacher really hates her so strongly based soley on her 
Muggle blood.  She cannot wrap her mind around the idea that a 
creature so abused by the very wizards that would eagerly abuse her 
would fall into the abusing wizards' beliefs.  Harry sees that 
Kreacher *does* believe every ugly thing he says, and so he 
recognizes Kreacher as a very real threat.  Harry doesn't condescend 
to Kreacher because Harry (like Dumbledore) knows just how powerful 
a disgruntled house-elf can be.  Hermione cannot see beyond 
Kreacher's (very real) victimhood.

>>a_svirn:
>It is a breathtaking arrogance on her part to suppose that she can 
make up for his pain and humiliation by paltry gifts or sooth his 
frustration by her oppressive friendliness.<
<snip>

Betsy:
"Oppressive friendliness"?  You make it sound like Hermione's been 
smothering Kreacher with attention.  Hermione is polite to Kreacher 
and she tries to stop others from bad-mouthing him.  And she gives 
him a Christmas quilt (without her name attached, IIRC) as a 
present.  I don't think Hermione thought the present would soothe 
all of Kreacher's troubles.  It was a token, an outreaching.  
There's nothing wrong, nothing even condescending, in her gesture.  
I see nothing arrogant about it.

Betsy