[HPforGrownups] Re: ANTIVIRUS - humble attempt of building a ship

[Mira]

No: HPFGUIDX 129291


--- Lindsay!! <DANCERWH86 at aol.com> wrote:

> to err is human...I feel he isn't someone who has
> commited or 
> represents a cardinal sin (which means damnation if
> one is not absolved 
> of it) as just a person with flaws like anyone else.

I could be wrong, but I cannot see Jo as somebody who
believes in damnation. She is not afraid to pass
judgement, this is correct, and not shy of formulating
clean-cut principles, but on the other hand, she is
too capable of seeing that every truth has shades, and
seems to believe in people too much to condemn mostly
nice people to damnation because they have flaws. I
think that what she is doing is closer to warning us
how easy and almost unnoticeable it is to slip away
from the right path and what disastrous consequences
it can have for ourselves and for other people in the
long term. Lupin was definitely careless in not
warning at least Dumbledore about the secret path from
Hogsmeade to Hogwarts, even if he would have had to
come clean about his friends being animagi and about
doubting Sirius' guilt, and also in not taking his
potion, which is not, I assume, a time-consuming task.
I understand that Lupin was far too loyal to give out
his friends' secrets, and I can also see loyalty
becoming carelessness. There is nothing wrong to it,
and we don't have to despise Lupin for it, only admire
him, but take notice.


--- pippin_999 <foxmoth at qnet.com> wrote:

> Pippin:
> Agreed. And on that basis I nominate OOP.  It  ties
> in with the
> unconscious troll of the fifth obstacle guarding the
> Stone, and 
> with the lethargy Harry manifests at the Dursleys.

I can see your point, and you are perhaps right
(although I see sloth as accompanying spirituality and
fury assigned to stupidity, rather than the other way
round). This might well be the end of ANTIVIRUS:
perhaps there are examples of all sins in each book
(as there undoubtely are). I still think each book has
a separate theme, and I still cannot equate Dementors
with wrath. They are too cold, too overpowering for
it. Besides, Harry is furious more than anything else
in OotP, and anger leads to many mistakes, except they
cannot be attributed to sloth, but to losing, together
with one's temper, the capacity of clear, logical,
methodical thinking.

Chys writes:

> I thought of Gluttany and Unicorn Blood. Would that
> be in reference to 
> the theme?

Perhaps, but killing an unicorn seems a crime too ugly
to attribute it only to gluttony. Wouldn't any blood
taste more or less the same? But in a sense you are
right, it is possible that former sins come to haunt
us, and that Voldemort's crimes from Book 1 will help
to damn him in Book 6.

Magda writes:

> I don't believe in ESE!Lupin

Neither do I. I have the utmost respect and admiration
for Lupin. He is, from my point of view, one of the
nicest characters in the books: loyal, competent,
empathic, tolerant, extremely brave, kind - I could go
on for ever talking about his qualities. Which doesn't
mean that he is perfect. Nobody is perfect. I think it
is much easier to draw attention to certain mistakes
when you attribute them to the good guys. The bad guys
are bad anyway, it is almost impossible to look at
their sins separately (it doesn't mean that there are
not reasons for them being bad, only that they choose
to use their trauma in the wrong way, letting it bring
destruction rather than learning from it).

Shanoah Alkire writes:

> It's also worth mentioning that Sloth wasn't always 
> one of the seven
> sins. It used to be Tristia, translated as either 
> sadness or despair.
> The more I think about it, I think JKR used both as 
> themes in PoA.

Yes, and I do think Lupin lets his fate shape him
rather than the other way round. It is so easy to sin
through despait when affected by Dementors, which is
one of the reasons why I don't believe in damnation.
Nobody should be condemned for having to deal with far
more hardship than most people, and making an
approximate job out of it. On the contrary. Still,
sloth, as well as letting yourself overwhelmed by
despair, are undoubtely able to put a person through
bad experiences (hell on earth). Who knows, perhaps
Sirius' death will help more than one character
conquer their weaknesses. The other examples you
mentioned are excellent and make me believe more in
the theory being correct.

A big thank you to everybody who has contributed such
nice, insightful, creative ideas to ANTIVIRUS - I am
waiting for more.

Mira

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