Teaching Neville & Blood Prejudice(was:Rampant Ingratitude, was Re:Lusting...)

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 129494

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "hickengruendler" 
<hickengruendler at y...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Magda Grantwich 
> <mgrantwich at y...> wrote:
>>Betsy:
>By telling Neville exactly what to do, Hermione prevents Neville 
from learning on his own, reinforces Neville's belief that he can't 
do potions and gets in the way of Snape's efforts to get through to 
a troubled student.  Hermione was trying to be nice, but she acted 
as an enabler and in the end did Neville no favors.<  
 
>>Magda:
>Yup.  Which is why I see Snape's side of things, even though I 
completely disagree with the way he treats Neville.
>If Hermoine really wanted to help Neville, she'd talk to him after 
class or help with his homework or try to talk up his confidence 
before class. Instead she gets him over the immediate hump and then 
walks away, leaving him no better off.  
>And Snape - who's figured that if saving his pet isn't enough 
motivation for Neville to get it right, nothing is - watches as his 
effort fizzles because Hermione "helped" again.<
 
>>Hickengruendler:
>I have one major problem with this reasoning. Snape actually never 
discovered that Hermione helped Neville. He suspected it (correctly, 
of course), because Neville's potion was correct. Therefore the 
reason the students were punished was that Neville's potion was 
correct, and Snape obviously did not expect this. This suggests 
strongly, IMO, that he wanted Neville to fail and therefore he also 
didn't care if some major harm would have happened to Trevor. (Well, 
he didn't care anyway).<

Betsy:
Neville went from having a disasterious potion to a perfect potion.  
Snape, who was able to tell by color and consistency exactly where 
Neville went wrong in his brewing, knew that Neville could not have 
achieved perfection.  The turn around was too sudden.  But Neville 
could possibly have achieved a better potion.  One that maybe took 
Trevor back a few froggy months or so.

But if Snape was only interested in watching Neville fail, all he'd 
have had to do was step back and let Neville do his worst.  Neville 
doesn't need any prompting to fail.  What Snape was trying to do was 
to prompt Neville to do *better*, to try harder.  And Hermione 
stepped on Neville's chance to try.

As to the possibility of harm to Trevor, I somehow doubt Trevor 
would have died.  He may have had a few uncomfortable moments, but I 
doubt Snape would actually *kill* a students pet.  Snape is always 
threatening the students with dire consequences, but the worst he's 
ever done is given someone a detention. (And he's been one of the 
most active faculty member in saving students' lives throughout the 
books.) 

>>Hickengruendler:
>If it were his aim to help Neville, than he should have been happy 
that his plan was working and that Neville showed some success. But 
this wasn't the case.<

Betsy:
What success?  That wasn't Neville's potion, it was Hermione's.  And 
Snape has been teaching too long to by fooled by such an obvious 
example of cheating.

>>Magda: 
>Notice, though, that Snape doesn't remove Hermione from Neville's 
vicinity; he could easily break up the class and pair people from 
different houses if he wanted.  Would Neville learn more partnering 
with Draco or Pansy Parkinson?  *shudders to think*
>Perhaps keeping Hermione and Neville close to each other is Snape's 
Plan B.<

Betsy:
I'd never thought about that before.  I think you're right, Magda.  
I seriously doubt Neville would have learned better paired with 
Draco or Pansy.  They would have tormented the poor boy to death 
(not to mention sabatoging his cauldron any chance they got).  And 
though Hermione seriously interfered in Snape's efforts in PoA, 
she's one of the few students in his class talented enough to tend 
to her own potion *and* keep an eye on what Neville is up to.

I wonder if Snape realized that Neville's fear of him is part of the 
problem (vividly illustrated by the boggart in PoA -- after the 
cheating incident).  Perhaps he decided that rather than constantly 
pick apart Neville's potions, he'd allow Hermione to act as a sort 
of teacher's assistant.  (Again, all this being decided *after* the 
cheating incident.  I'm not letting Hermione completely off the hook 
here. <g>)