Debatable ethical issues in OotP and HBP

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 142418

> SSSusan:
> See, I think this is the way to look at things.  WHAT was behind 
the 
> choices made?  With *Sirius* in this particular case, yes, but with 
> *all characters* as well?  If we're NOT going to allow, for 
> Sirius, "excuses" like rashness as a personality trait or possible 
> depression or the impact of 12 years of Dementor presence & the 
> frustration of being unable to prove one's innocence regarding 
> despicable crimes, then what about Snape?  No "excuses" such as 
> Insecure!Snape or Narcissistic!Snape, who can't HELP the way he 
> treats the kids, or his inability "by nature" to let go of the 
James 
> grudge and therefore to dissociate Harry from James.  No ignoring 
> that Snape likely did some nasty sh*t as a DE, which he *elected* 
to 
> become.  No ignoring that his earlier choices have led to his being 
> in a very delicate position now – playing loyal party to both 
sides, 
> teetering always on the brink of someone's discovering the truth.  
> 
> I just think the harsh judgment of one character, the writing off 
of 
> him as having "made the bed in which he lies," seemingly ignoring 
the 
> complexity of influences, decisions, happenstance and personality, 
> invites the same kind of judgment of other characters.  Do we write 
> them off as quickly and easily, or do we justify, explain, and 
> rationalize the position they're in and the choices they've made?  
> Fairness would require consistency.
> 
> Not that I'm perfect in this, but I work at it. ;-)

Ceridwen:
That's all true.  We do tend to cluster around our favorite 
characters.  Sirius has never been one of my favorites, while Snape 
has.  But, I can see how Sirius's temperment affects the way he 
attacks life.  He made some bad mistakes, the last one costing his 
life (punishment enough, I think!) because he didn't wait for 
Dumbledore.  Yet, I think we can all understand why he went to the 
MoM, as well as why that wasn't such a good thing for him to do.

Carol:
>> After twelve years in Azkaban, he escaped with the noble intention
>> of murdering his former friend and behaved in ways that reinforced
>> the perception that he was a homicidal maniac

SSSusan:
> Post-escape, Sirius' behavior does nothing to dissuade those who
> believe he's a murderer, true. He's angry and desperate to stop
> Pettigrew from reaching Harry. He's a fugitive and no one knows the
> truth about himself and Pettigrew, so to whom could he have turned?

Ceridwen:
I'd agree with Carol here - he could have turned to Dumbledore.  
Otherwise, everyone who asked that, has a point.  Most people in the 
MoM, and probably the majority of wizards and witches who know of or 
were around when the murder of the Potters was big news, would shun 
him in fear, call for the DMLE, and have him shipped right back to 
Azkaban, or the embrace of a 'loving' Dementor.

And, I think that's where Lupin fell down.  I'm still not sure where 
Lupin stood with Sirius.  I've read that he was the one letting 
Sirius into the castle, *and* that he didn't know any more than 
anyone else about what really happened, including the SK switch 
(hence the apparent mistrust at first in the Shrieking Shack).  
Taking all of that together, then, Lupin having special knowledge 
about Sirius's Animagus form yet not knowing the circumstances of GH, 
he should have told Dumbledore to have the staff be on the look-out 
for a big, black dog.  Lupin himself admits that this was a failing 
on his part.  If he'd told Dumbledore about the dog, it's possible 
Dumbledore would have gone out of his way to find Sirius before the 
whole Shrieking Shack episode and sort things out.  Of course, we 
wouldn't have gotten nearly as good a story out of it!  ;)

I tend to the 'arrested development' theory of Sirius - his adult 
life was spent in a place where he was unable to change and grow into 
a more responsible person.  I don't know how he could catch up on 
that development other than to force himself into it, as he would 
have done, at a more leisurely pace, if he'd not gone to prison.  I 
don't think he wanted to change, he didn't see anything wrong with 
being a leaper before a looker, and he didn't get out enough to see 
examples which would have taught him better.

So, maybe this is where the Order failed him.  They mentioned things 
he had to do, and treated him like an adult who was able to draw on 
examples from his past in order to do them, when he didn't have the 
base to get it done.  But, is the Order culpable?  Or is the fact 
that there is a war, and time is limited, an extenuating circumstance?

And, I'm including Snape in that, taunts and all.  The WW doesn't 
seem to be too aware of mental problems, other than the ward at St. 
Mungo's.  No one, Snape included, probably gave the whole history of 
Sirius's life much thought when they interacted with him.  And for 
that matter, neither did Sirius, and neither did Hermione with all 
her book-learning and pop psychology with the house elves.  Oddly 
here, I'd expect more from someone raised in a Muggle environment, 
with all of our emphasis on mental disabilities, to know more.  
Meaning Hermione, and possibly Harry and Snape.

Just because people failed here, I'm not suggesting they're 
eeeeevil.  Just unaware.  Not many of us deal with severe clinical 
depression as a matter of course, not even in the Muggle world, and 
we make mistakes.  You can't say that people who have no awareness 
could do better.  (And for that lack of awareness, I'd point to the 
WW as a whole as part of the problem.)

Thing is, I don't think I would have done any better.  If I had 
Sirius's temperment, I would probably have done everything the way he 
did it, if I had Snape's temperment, and lack of awareness of the 
seriousness of Sirius's problem, I'd have risen to Sirius's bait as 
well.  And, I'm familiar with the explanation of 'a cry for help'.  
Same with the other members of the Order.  That's the way the WW 
seems to operate, like it or not.  The apparent resilience 
(physically) of witches and wizards seems to make everyone think that 
everyone else can bounce back like the proverbial ferret, when it 
just isn't so.

Ceridwen.