The Iron Fist of Will - body/body or body/spirit

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 142463

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Ceridwen" <ceridwennight at h...>
wrote:
>
> bboyminn:
> > 
> > ...edited...
> > 
> > The only true possession ... is when  Voldemort possessed 
> > Harry in the Ministry of Magic ... the only  logical way I 
> > can see it is that Voldemort merged his body with Harry's. 
> > In the truest sense, two bodies became one. ... if Voldemort
> > had only mentally possessed Harry, then Voldemort ... While 
> > his mind was in Harry, his body would have been ... very 
> > vulnerable to attack by Dumbledore. ... In a sense, he was 
> > using Harry's body as a sheild.

 
> Ceridwen:
> I see possession as the deliberate overtaking of a body by a 
> spirit entity. I don't see physical bodies merging at all. I 
> have no idea what Voldemort was supposed to have done with his
> body at the MoM, other than to keep on fighting with it while 
> a part of him engaged Harry.  ....edited... Up until that point
> it's always been a mind thing.  I don't see why it would change.
> 
> Ceridwen.


bboyminn:

Well, you believe what you believe; I'm not trying to take that away
from you. I just see it differently.

In the MoM battle scene, why would Dumbledore pay any attention to
Voldemort(in Harry) at all, other than the fact that Voldemort was
talking. This would have been the perfect opportunity for Dumbledore
to destroy Voldemort's body and send him back to his pre-GoF state of
essential vapor. 

All the ground he gained since GoF would have been lost. I'm sure he
could eventually get a body back again, but he's limited on his
Bone-Flesh-Blood Potion/Charm options. He could have done some
variation of that, but he could never recreated it to the degree that
he currently has.

Without his body, Voldemort can't hold a wand and can't perform magic.
True while he is in Harry's body, he can use Harry's body to carry out
acts for him, but Harry isn't really cooperating. Once Harry drove him
out, where would he go, what would he do? Would his Death Eaters still
follow him if he was powerless? Enquiring minds want to know.

And, if as you say, Voldemort's body kept fighting then why didn't
Dumbledore keep fighting back? If the fighting body was there and was
a real threat, it's pretty hard for Dumbledore to ignore.

For one corporeal person to possess another, it makes no sense, if the
possessor leaves his body behind and vulnerable.

Now, I'm not saying possession by mind/spirit/whatever only is not
possible; because most likely it is. I'm just saying that's not what
Voldemort did to Harry in the Ministry of Magic Battle ...or at least,
that's what I'm speculating.

I can understand that you don't like the natural/unnatural dynamics of
two bodies physically merging, but as unlikely and illogical as it may
seem, that's still how I see that scene. The alternative just leaves
too many unanswered questions.

Of course, that's just my own wild unfounded opinion, but none the
less, there it is.

Steve/bboyminn