Debatable ethical issues in OotP and HBP

[lucianam73]

No: HPFGUIDX 142494

> Magda wrote:
(snip)
> Well, maybe the answer is: there really wasn't any task that Sirius
> was qualified to perform.  
> 
> Granted he's good in a fight (although being the only one killed in
> the Battle at the MoM might not look that way), but how many times
> would the Order get into a street fight?  It certainly wasn't their
> strategy in OOTP.
> 
> Sirius' personal tragedy was that he was irrelevant to the fight 
the
> Order was currently waging and he was increasingly irrelevant to
> Harry, who had actually outgrown him without realizing it.  
> (Although I think Sirius did realize it and tried to adjust his 
behaviour
> accordingly.)  

(edited)
> 
> I guess I really don't see why members of the Order should have
> adjusted their busy lives to make a grown man feel good about 
> himself when everyone knew the dangers out there and the 
> importance of secrecy.  So he was bored.  There are worse things 
> than being bored. 
> 
		
Lucianam:

Yes, there are worse things than being bored, like being depressed 
and feeling useless. 

Of course you have addressed the 'useless' part, and I agree in 
part. Sirius wasn't doing anything else for the Order besides 
providing them a HQ, but that was something. From Sirius's own words 
we know he didn't think it was enough (and neither did Snape, it 
seemed).

I don't think Harry had outgrown Sirius though, it seems he was a 
reference to Harry when he had trouble with James's behavior in the 
pensieve. Lupin was there too, but Harry didn't know that when he 
took that risk in Umbridge's office just to talk to Sirius. 

I guess JKR knew she was going to give Sirius the axe, so she had to 
justify herself - that being HUGELY my own perception, of course. 

Sirius had a very interesting plotline of his own in PoA, but I 
think JKR had trouble to insert him in GoF's plot. What does he do 
in GoF? Not much besides being a source of info on Death Eaters. 
Anyone could have done that! 

Sherry wrote:
(snipped)
> I've
> always found his presence in Dumbledore's office after the 
> graveyard one of
> the most moving scenes in the series. Harry draws comfort and 
> strength from
> his presence. Harry needed him, and no matter what the eventual
> consequences, it was the right thing to do at the time. 

I think that was Sirius's real role in GoF, and for plot reasons I 
suppose JKR could've cut his other scenes in GoF but this one and 
the one with Snape in Chapter The Second War Begins (Snape had to 
know he was on their side, so that scene was relevant).

Well, in OotP Sirius gets a lot of space because he is, in a way, 
the central figure (not counting Harry, obviously) of the book. 
Again (he was in PoA). Why the gap in GoF than? I think it's because 
JKR simply created Sirius with the intention of having Harry 
experience personal loss. One would think he's had enough personal 
losses in his life, being an orphan, but it's different. Harry never 
knew his parents. Sirius was someone that came into his life as a 
wonderful surprise, then turned out not to be wonderful but 
a 'normal' person with qualities and flaws, and still they cared 
about each other and wanted to keep up their relationship when - bye 
bye. He was gone.

My rambling has a point... oh yes. I think it's possible to see 
Sirius as useless, as a hindrance, as irrelevant in OotP if you 
consider him strictly in plot terms. Either as 'Harry's personal 
loss waiting to happen' or as 'reckless animagus who'd outlived his 
usefulness to the Order', there are canon arguments. But it is also 
possible to see Sirius as wasted potential. He didn't fulfill that 
potential while he was stuck in Grimmauld place, and that's all. 

I also don't see how JKR would've managed to fit him in HBP 
(repeating what he did in GoF?), and that reinforces my impression 
that she simply didn't know what to do with him anymore. He's not a 
werewolf, so he wouldn't be able to do interesting things such as go 
live in werewolf den.

One thought more: when all plotline trouble is over and supposing 
we'll have a happy ending, how will JKR manage Sirius's being dead? 
It is reasonable to expect Harry will miss him, in the middle of all 
the 'Hooray the Wizarding World is saved!' festivities. Just 
wondering.

Lucianam (obviously not happy that Sirius is dead).