Re: CHAPDISC3: HBP 3, WILL AND WON’T, continued

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 142646

This is a continuation of my previous post, which was getting a bit long.
> 
> Q9:  Do you believe that the Order will ever move back to 12 
> Grimmauld Place?  Why not move someplace friendlier?  Do they 
> secretly enjoy irritating Mrs. Black?  <g>  Is it because Phineas's 
> portrait, or something else that is significant, is in the house?

Carol:
I hadn't thought about Phineas's portrait, which could continue to
serve Dumbledore as well as (or instead of) the current headmaster or
headmistress. (Since I assume that McGonagall will assume the
position, I don't foresee conflicting loyalties for Phineas though
that would be a great plot device if JKR weren't limited by the need
to squeeze so much into a single book already.) I think the place will
be a bit less forbidding with Kreacher gone, and maybe Mrs Black will
stop screaming now that her renegade "blood traitor" son is dead. At
any rate, friendliness is much less important than safety, and the
house is presumably still protected by the Fidelius Charm even with DD
dead. And of course, it belongs to Harry, which is also convenient, so
I think they'll continue to use it. On a side note, I wish that Black
had given the house to Lupin, who needs it, rather than to Harry, who
doesn't. Maybe Harry will end up giving it to Lupin as a wedding gift
if he, Harry, and Tonks all survive to Book 8. Erm, I mean the
Epilogue of Book 7.
> 
> Q10:  Do you think *anything* will bring Harry back to the house?  
> Do you think pleasant memories could ever change the atmosphere of 
> the house?

Carol:
Pleasant memories? Another Christmas, with a toast to Sirius
(actually, that would work better at New Years, Auld Lang Syne). I
don't think he'll ever associate it with pleasant memories. But
necessity, and RAB, will bring Harry back to 12 GP in Book 7. I'm
betting on it.
> 
> Q11:  Is this [apparently greedy interest on hearing that Harry's
grandfather is dead and Harry has inherited a house] just Vernon's
normal reaction, or is it something more 
> significant?

Carol responds:
Almost everyone has commented on Vernon's greed here, so I'll mention
something else: Aarry had been using his "murderer" godfather's
existence as an implied threat to the Dursleys since the end of
PoA--hurt me or neglect me and I'll write to my godfather. So Harry
had conveniently "forgotten" to inform the Dursleys that Black was
dead (not to mention that he hadn't felt like talking about it). So I
was rather surprised at Vernon's reaction. I thought he would be angry
with Harry for deceiving him (concealing his godfather's death). (BTW,
I don't think that DD "conjures" Kreacher. I think he summons him
using a silent Accio--although it's not clear how he has the authority
to do so as he's not Kreacher's master. But I don't think a wizard can
*conjure* a living being which has its own existence.)
> 

> Q12:  Harry does not give Kreacher any orders about discussing the 
> Order.  Was this an error by Harry and Dumbledore?  Or do Sirius's 
> orders to Kreacher still apply?

Carol responds:
I think that Kreacher is still bound not to reveal any secrets that
Sirius ordered him to reveal, and of course the Fidelius Charm applies
to house-elves as well as to wizards or he'd have revealed the secret
to Narcissa earlier. So I don't think it's an error on the part of
either Harry or Dumbledore (who can't order Kreacher directly in any
case). Also, I doubt that they wanted to discuss the Order in front of
the Dursleys. The order I think Harry should have given is "Take a
bath and wear one of the Hogwarts tea towels." :-)
> 
> When Harry is ready to leave, Dumbledore turns to the Dursleys and 
> speaks to them directly for the first time since entering the house 
> (not counting the issue with the glasses of mead).  He [Q13, Q14]

> 
> Q13: Why does Dumbledore say this [chastise the Dursleys  
for their cruelty and neglect of Harry, and comment on "the appalling
damage" done to Dudley] now?  Why not 5 years ago?  At this point, why
say it at all?

Carol responds:
As others have noted, it doesn't affect the Dursleys much but it does
give Harry some satisfaction. IMO, it wasn't necessary to the plot and
was simply added to placate viewers who felt that Harry was a victim
of abuse and that Dumbledore was at fault for placing him with them.
(I happen not to blame Dumbledore for doing what he had to do, and I
think that being with the Dursleys gave Harry strengths that he would
never have acquired as a "pampered little prince" in a wizard
household. I'm very glad that Harry didn't come to Hogwarts aware of
his celebrity status, ready to develop into a second James.) So for
me, DD's words to the Dursleys were just a little loose plot end
tidied up. (Please don't call me heartless. This is a work of fiction
we're taling about, and the Dursleys have never been realistic
characters.)

> Q14:  Will there be consequences for either Harry or Dudley in 
> Dumbledore's having done this? 
> and
> Q15:  What is significant about Harry turning 17 or "coming of age" 
> that would cause the protection to end?

Carol responds:
For Dudley, certainly not. The Dursleys can't comprehend that their
"love" (indulgence) has shaped Dudley into a bully with no virtues and
no talents except boxing. I can't see much hope of a transformation
for Dudders, and his parents could hardly change their child-rearing
methods when he's sixteen even if they wanted to. As for Harry, he's
endured them for fifteen years (sixteen at the beginning of Book 7).
He'll only have a month with them and then--well, we'll see what
happens when the magical protection ends, but I don't think it will be
Petunia who performs magic. (Mrs Figg!) I think that DD designed the
protection of mother love protecting a child through her "blood" to
end when Harry became a "man" by WW standards. It has to be his own
responsibility to take care of himself, and it's really unfair to
further endanger the Dursleys by his presence if he's fully qualified,
or close to it. (A shame that he probably won't have that extra year
at Hogwarts.) Anyway, whatever small consequences may come of DD's
having scolded the Dursleys for neglecting Harry will be nothing
compared with what LV plans for him when the protection ends at 12:01
August 1.
  
> 
> Q16: Why was Petunia "oddly flushed"?

Carol responds:
Petunia has always known things about the WW that she hasn't told
Vernon. Twice words have burst out of her (in SS/PS with Hagrid and in
OoP after the Dementor incident) that indicate she's been suppressing
both feelings and information for a long time. I think that maybe she
feels a bit of guilt or resentment or both. She has a blood connection
with Harry that Vernon doesn't share and she knows things that he
ought to know. I think all that will come out in Book 7. (But I don't
think she'll perform magic. JKR has been telling us for six books that
she's a Muggle and I believe it. Besides, she wouldn't know a spell
from a computer program in Fortran. Mrs. Figg would, which is why
she's my candidate for the person who'll perform magic in desperate
circumstances late in life. Besides Petunia is only about forty, which
is not "late in life.")
> 
> Q17: Do you think Harry will be allowed to return to Privet Drive?

Carol responds:
Absolutely. We have to have that segment of the story! Besides, even
if Vernon opposes it, Petunia will persuade him, as she did after the
Howler.
> 
> And to repeat the Potioncat's question from Chapter 2: Ch2-Q10.
Here's a question to think about when we move into chapter 3: "The
Other Minister" begins with a Muggle receiving two visitors.  It's an
informative, yet humorous chapter. The dreary "Spinners End" begins
with two visitors coming to a very different Muggle location. "Will
and Won't" begins with someone waiting for a visitor and returns us to
a more humorous mood. How do these three chapters work together?

Carol responds:
As has already been noted, not just the first three but the first four
chapters seem to take place at approximately the same time on the same
night (and involve unexpected visitors in a different Muggle
location). Chapter 1 begins at just before midnight on what appears to
be a Friday night (both the Muggle PM and Fudge talk about the week
they've been having). Chapter 2 seems to follow immediately afterward,
as the fog shifts from London to the industrial north. I'd say it
can't be much past 1:00 as the action (as opposed to the flashbacks)
in chapter 1 can't take much time. It might even be earlier, say
around 12:30 when Narcissa and Bellatrix Apparate into the vicinity of
Spinner's End. Chapter 3 backtracks and we have a sleeping Harry
waiting for 11:00 on what is definitely a Friday night. The clock
strikes midnight in the next chapter and there's enough talk and
action to make the events at Slughorn's occur at roughly the same time
as "Spinner's End," or only slightly before, so that Slughorn's
acceptance of the Potions appointment occurs while Snape is talking
with the Black sisters--making him officially the DADA teacher and
subject to the DADA curse just in time for Narcissa to propose the UV.

At any rate, "Will and Won't" re-establishes the usual Harry
perspective of the books, but not immediately; the first part of the
chapter continues the objective narrator of "Spinner's End," who
describes Harry's room and its contents while Harry is asleep. We're
brought up to date on events through the mechanism of Daily Prophet
articles, an MoM pamphlet, and a hand-written note, along with a
description of Harry's rather odd possessions, among them an owl, a
set of spell books, and a cauldron. (Odd that he packed the cauldron
if he didn't think he was going to take NEWT Potions. Maybe just in
case?) Later the chapter answers readers' questions through Dumbledore
informing Harry of events concerning Sirius Black and Kreacher through
the entertaining (for the reader) contact between the WW and Muggle
worlds (a device also used in "The Other Minister"). Like chapter 1,
chapter 3 is primarily humorous and informative, but it also touches
on some sinister or serious elements: Bellatrix Lestrange, Sirius
Black's will and death, Kreacher, the Dursleys' treatment of Harry,
the end of the magical protection, Dumbledore's blackened hand, and
DD's taste for Madam Rosmerta's mead. Quite a feat for a seemingly
innocent chapter. And a much better method of updating the reader than
the tiresome "Harry Potter was a very unusual boy" exposition of CoS
and PoA. 

Carol, breathing a sigh of relief that she made it to the end and
hoping that one or two readers are still with her