Etiquette WAS Re: polite Dumbledore? - cont'd

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 142768

Valky wrote:
<snip> 
> OTOH I don't think that the canon really supports that Dumbledore
> intended to beat the Durselys over te head with glasses of mead. He
> conjures the glasses for them to drink and in the beginning of the
> spell the glasses hover in their reach, it is only when they make a
> deliberate attempt to ignore the gesture from dumbledore that the
> glasses begin "nudging them gently" on the sides of their heads. A
lot of time passes and Vernon beats his glass away before the glasses
> become at all violent. <snip>
> Dumbledore cast a spell on the glasses and the spell just kept doing
> its job, like it was supposed to, which was to offer the Dursleys
> their drinks. <snip>

Carol responds:
Yes, that's what I thought, too, as I noted in my response to
Ravenclaw Bookworm's chapter questions. (I'm too lazy to look up the
link, sorry.)

Valky:
> <snip>
> Now it's my turn to suggest a comparison. I can't take credit for
the idea because it was actually suggested by someone else. (Thanks
Carol! :D) My suggestion is that we compare the visit by Dumbledore to
the Dursleys to Narcissa and Bella's dropping in unexpectedly on Snape
at Spinners end. 
> 
> Narcissa calls on Snape very very unexpectedly. And Bella arrives
with her, striding into Snapes sitting room uninvited and snarling. 
By the rod some of us are measuring Dumbledore with Snape should have
slammed the door in Bella's face. But he instead plays the charming
host to both ladies, offering drinks and seats etc, even making a
proper toast. Narcissa then apologises for turning up 'like this',
which does suggest that she has arrived improperly in some sense. My
guess is that she means to apologise for arriving without announcement
or invitation.
> 
> aside:- You are right, Carol,  There is an extraordinary whiff of
posh from these pages I am looking at now <bg>
 
> In general, I think that the arrival of the Black sisters at
Spinners End demonstrates the reception that Dumbledore expected to
see when he got to the Dursleys. Well perhaps not as warm, but the
same sorts of gesture - humouring the visit with a polite and
customary few minutes of your time and playing charming host even
though you are caught off-guard. Anyone doubting that this seemingly
antiquated sort of formal etiquette is written into HBP should read
this chapter again.

Carol responds:
I'm glad you liked my suggestion. I don't remember using the
expression "whiff of posh" (being American and all that), but I think
it's close to my intended meaning, which is that the "custom" you're
describing seems like something out of Jane Austen to me, that I saw
the same highly civilized and very English behavior that Dumbledore
expected and didn't receive from the Dursleys in Snape as he
entertained the Black sisters with small talk and wine before getting
down to business. (We see something like that again on the tower in
Dumbledore's extension of courtesy to Draco and the very undeserving
Death Eaters, with the obvious exception of an offered drink.)

I'm trying to imagine an American Dumbledore unexpectedly dropping in
on the Dursleys. Maybe he'd be slightly scruffy and openly hippieish,
looking a bit like Walt Whitman or that crazy professor at the
University of Arizona who runs around the campus in bare feet--his
name escapes me but he's well-known. At any rate, I picture something
like this:

(Dumbledore knocks or rings the bell. Vernon Dursley answers.)
Dumbledore: "Didn't you get my note, Dursley? (Steps inside.) Sit
down, sit down! (Peeks into the kitchen.) Are you Petunia? Come on,
come on. We're wasting time. Oh, that must be Dudley. Everybody here?
Harry, put your stuff down and take a seat. Now the reason I'm here is--"

No drinks, no small talk, only the barest of introductions, then down
to business. (And no American I know would have served anyone mead,
least of all two sixteen-year-old boys. Well, Nora might have. ;-) )

But Dumbledore, being (thank heavens!) English is considerably more
knowledgeable about etiquette, not to mention concerned about its
importance, than any American of my acquaintance. If he's rude, it's a
very "posh" (to use Valky's word), very formal, very elegant sort of
rudeness. I'm sure the Dursleys were startled by being forced to sit
on their own sofa, but I doubt they were terrified (unless we count
the sudden appearance of Kreacher). And as for the drinks, I agree
with Valky that the glasses were simply "doing their job," calling
attention to themselves. In ordinary circumstances, they'd have
behaved like Harry's and Dumbledore's glasses and remained on the
table when placed there. They only became persistent when they were
ignored.

Carol