[HPforGrownups] Re: What would a successful AK mean?

[Sherry Gomes]

No: HPFGUIDX 142879

Sydney:

I'm sure this has been repeated ad nauseum, but one more time from the
top:

Sherry:

Yes, and my opinions have been repeated the same.  LOL.  Neither side will
ever convince the other, not till we have the final word from JKR in book
seven.  Why am I here again when I swore no more Snape argument for me?
Well, i guess I didn't make an unbreakable vow on it.  Smile.


Sydney
If Snape had not killed Dumbledore, he would have dropped dead from
breaking the Vow.  Then one of the Death Eaters would have killed the
wandless D-dore.  Then the DE's, including the bloodthirsty Fernir,
would have rampaged around the school, before hauling Draco back to
V-mort.  Who would then probably have killed Draco and his entire
family.  

Sherry:

And about that ridiculous vow.  Either Snape is evil, or he's an idiot for
entering into a vow without knowing what he was vowing to do.  He did have
an out, after all.  He tells Narcissa that if the dark lord doesn't want it
discussed, she should not discuss it.  That should certainly shut up Bella
if she protested.  If he did know the contents of the vow, if he knew what
Narcissa was going to ask, then he cannot justify that to me or to many
others here.  So, either the great heroic Snape is a damn fool, or he's
evil.  i just can't see any other reason for him entering into that vow.
Only Carol's ideas about the DADA curse--with which I agree in many
ways--could even begin to be a possible excuse for me.  And yet, as my
cousin, a recovering drug addict learned in rehab, drugs might be the
reason, but they don't excuse the action.  The DADA jinx might have put
Snape in a situation that he could not win, but that doesn't excuse him
killing Dumbledore.  


Sydney:
It's possible to argue that it would have been more 'heroic' to die
from the Vow and let the chips fall where they may.  It's probaly what
Sirius would have done.  But I would say personally that it would not
exactly be an optimal choice. It's strongly implied in the text that
it's not the choice Dumbledore wanted Snape to make.


Sherry:
To you, and other DDM Snape people, it is strongly implied in the text.  To
me the text implies that Dumbledore would not want to be murdered by someone
he trusted.  If it was a plan, it was a poor plan with Harry there to see it
and spread the word.  Anyone on the good side would be likely to shoot first
and ask questions later, if Snape tried to get in touch.  (would that be
likely to AK first and ask later?)  LOL.


Sydney
There actually is not that much room for interpretation in that scene.

sherry:
But those of us who believe in ESE or OFH Snape think the interpretation
works just as well our way.  The brilliance of JKR there by giving us one
scene that can be seen in so many different ways.  She must be rubbing her
hands together with glee!


Sydney
 Look, Snape makes the Unbreakable Vow to complete Draco's task, ie,
killing Dumbledore, or he would die.  Fast forward to several months
later, when we have an overheard conversation:  Snape is saying he
doesn't want to do something, and Dumbledore is saying that he
promised he would do and he should do it.  Fast forward a little
further.  Harry asks D-dore if he still trusts Snape. D-dore says that
he is CERTAIN, that he TRUSTS SNAPE ABSOLUTELY.  A couple of hours
later, the weakened D-dore is asking to be taken to Snape.  When Snape
appears on the tower, Dumbledore begins IMMEDIATELY to plead with
Snape:  "Severus... please...".  He doesn't say "Severus.. thank god!
 Wait... no... Severus... please."  There is no transition at all.  No
matter how sudden or subtle, there would need to be a moment of "Yay!
 Snape" before moving into "rats!  I was wrong!"


Sherry:

i've read it too.  I just disagree with your interpretation of the events.
i don't have any idea about the argument with Dumbledore, think I slept
through that part of the book.  But I think we are supposed to believe
that's what they were arguing about.  As for Dumbledore's unshakable trust,
he himself gives us the clue by telling Harry that he is capable of making
bigger mistakes than others.  Even JKR says that in her muggle Net/Leaky
Cauldron interview.  i believe that Dumbledore made one of his huge mistakes
by trusting Snape, and that Harry, whose judgment we have been set up to
doubt will be right in the end.  He *is* the hero after all.


Sydney
For the series to end with Dumbldore's trust being
mistaken, and Harry's hatred to be correct, it would have to have
established a 'minor-key' from the beginning, by having a dark,
noirish feeling and a cynical message.  

It would not merely be surprising, it would be downright avant-garde
to end the series with an evil Snape, and JKR is not exactly an
avant-garde plotter.  


As Harry is the protagonist, it is necessary for him to CHANGE, though.

-- Sydney, who thinks evil!Snape is about as likely as an asteroid
hitting Hogwarts


Sherry:
Again, it's how you interpret it.  i think an evil Snape and a right on
target all these years Harry would be highly satisfying and would be a
fantastic ending.  In fact, it's too boring to me to have Harry be wrong
again and good old Dumbledore right.  Let the asteroid fall.  i admit I
don't want Snape to be good because I think he's a rotten horrible person
and he shouldn't be seen to be good.  But putting my personal feelings
aside, I still believe an ESE or OFH Snape ending can be powerful and
exciting.  Far more than a good old Snape ending would be.  Yawn--oh here we
go again, Harry wrong; Snape pure and holy.  That would be pretty darned
dull.

Sherry
Where's someone to help me make an unbreakable vow never ever ever to
discuss Snape again?