The Possibilities of Grey Snape/Dumbledore/Harry

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 143074

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Sherry Gomes" <sherriola at e...>
wrote:
>
> bboyminn:
> 
> Once in the Dumbledore camp, ... as a ..adult,... very
> different from his school days. An adult world in which 
> people respected him for his skill and ability. Suddenly 
> as an adult, he was getting the respect he never got as a 
> kid, and from the very people he thought never would or could 
> respect him. 
> 
> Conclusion; Snape really did join Dumbledore's camp; he finally
> felt trusted, respected, and accepted. 
> 
> 
> Sherry now:
> Trusted and respected by whom?  The quickness with which his
> colleagues--except Hagrid--were ready to accept Harry's word 
> on the death of Dumbledore doesn't seem to indicate that he was
> trusted and respected by his fellow teachers. It seemed that they
> had all, like the rest of us, accepted Snape on the strength of 
> Dumbledore's word alone.  ...
> 

bboyminn:

Agreed, believe it or not. First, I was talking of about 14-15 years
ago when Snape was first in Dumbledores' camp. On Dumbledore's word,
others SHOWED Snape trust, respect, and acceptance. Whether it was
genuine and heartfelt is irrelevant; it was at least displayed to
Snape in deference to Dumbledore.

But that was certainly more respect and acceptance than he could have
ever possibly gotten from the back-stabbing status-seeking Death
Eaters, or from the manipulative and merciless Voldemort. 


> bboyminn:
> 
> So, Snape is well aware that in destroying Dumbledore, Snape has
> destroyed himself even under the best of circumstances. I think this
> is evident in Snape's reaction to being called a coward by Harry. If
> Harry only knew the level of courage Snape had just shown. If Harry
> only knew just how much Snape had sacrificed for the sake of
> Dumbledore's Grand Plan, Harry could never call him a coward. 
> 
> 
> Sherry now:
> 
> Yes, it must take a great deal of sacrifice, bravery and honor 
> to kill an innocent, unarmed old man. Right. i can see how much
> courage such an act might take. ... Ugh. i find that a horrendous 
> concept.  ... i just don't see howthat can ever be an act of 
> courage.
> 

bboyminn:

War, that is your answer. War is a failing of mankind; an utter social
and moral failing. In wartime, the best of us are force to do horrible
things that go against our very nature, yet we do them for the greater
good, and sometimes we are called heroes for it. Keep in mind, the way
you determine the heroes from the villian is usually by no more than
which side won.

But at the same time you are right. Snape killing Dumbledore is a
horrible repugnant thing, and Snape knows it, and that was his
sacrifice. To do something that was so horrible and repugnant because
the alternative was total disaster. Think about what would have
happened on the Tower if Snape has chosen any other course of action.
I suspect many more would have died including Dumbledore. Alternate
courses of action do not save Dumbledore and they do not serve the
fight against Voldemort.

Snape, horrible and repulsive as it may have been, chose the path of
least resistance and the path of least damage. He ended the seige and
got Draco and the Death Eaters out of the Castle, and did so with
minimal damage. 

I say that Snape is well aware that he has done something horrible,
repulsive, and repugnant. Something for which, even with the very best
possible justification, the wizard world will never forgive him for.
It's entirely possible that Snape expect to die if he is caught by
Auror. In his mind, a 'good' outcome would be life in Azkaban. He
certainly can't believe he will ever escape punishment. And that is
his sacrifice, to know that he destroyed himself in order to minimize
damage in the moment and maximize the potential for victory in the
future. 

Snape is well aware how you and the wizard world feel about him. But
he did the best he could under very difficult circumstances. I don't
believe it was Dumbledore or even Snape's own desire that killed
Dumbledore, it was a set of circumstances that none of them could
escape. He chose the best possible outcome in a situation in which all
possible outcomes ended in disaster. He simply chose the one disaster
that ultimately, in the long run, served the greatest good. 


> 
> bboyminn:
> 
> To the last point, ..., I think Snape will be instrumental in 
> helping Harry. The Horcrux task is near impossible, ... I can 
> only conclude that he will get some substantial outside help 
> from somewhere. The only available candidate for that level of
> help is Snape. 
> 
> 
> 
> sherry:
> 
> We do not know for sure that Snape knows about the horcruxes.  ...
> 
> Sherry
>

bboyminn:

Well, if Snape doesn't know then Harry is screwed bigtime. Certainly
Draco is in no position to help him. I can't imagine Lucius helping
Harry or the Order. It's either Snape or it's no one.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bboyminn