The Possibilities of Grey Snape/Dumbledore/Harry

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 143086

bboyminn: 
> Here is where I don't agree, though I admit I can't prove my
> position. JKR was very careful to make sure we could not determine
> Snape's true allegiance. Personally, I think Snape was bluffing
> when the told Narcissa that he knew the details of the Dark Lord's
> plan. Thinking that the Dark Lord wanted to kill Dumbledore wasn't
> much of a stretch though; everyone pretty well knew that. I think 
> Snape said that he knew to get Narcissa to open up and give him
> more details. 

Jen: I'm not sure it matters either way, because like you said, the 
idea that Voldemort would want Harry's primary protector out of the 
way is a given. Combine that with the idea Voldemort planted Snape 
at Hogwarts 16 years ago to have an insider available to kill 
Dumbledore, and the machine was operational long before the night of 
the UV (speculation there). 

Dumbledore probably guessed once Voldemort was unable to retrieve 
the prophecy, he would go back to his pre-vapor agenda, which likely 
had "kill Dumbledore" at the top of the list. 

bboyminn:
> I also don't believe that Snape and Dumbledore had a specific
> detailed plan. <snip> I think on a more general level Snape and
> Dumbledore had discussions in which Dumbledore emphasized that the
> Plan to defeat Voldemort was more important than Dumbledore's
> life, and that if the situation should arise, Snape should choose
> his actions for the good of the long term Plan rather than the
> good of the moment. So, no conspiracy, but a general understanding.

Jen: At a bare minimum they knew Voldemort was going to expect Snape 
to earn his keep at some point. Voldemort didn't hear the prophecy, 
but he did learn very useful information at the MOM--Dumbledore was 
not planning to kill him. Whether he concluded Dumbledore knew about 
the horcruxes or was simply losing his touch, Voldemort likely 
viewed it as a weakness he could exploit.

In fact, I'd even conjecture Dumbledore showed his hand to Voldemort 
at the MOM, in hopes of diverting attention from Harry for as long 
as possible.

Steve:
> That puts Snape in a very awkward position. Does he ask Draco if
> he is interested in the protection Dumbledore offerred him, and
> thereby risk revealing his own disloyalty to the Dark Lord; or
> does he just let the situation ride and thereby allow Draco to 
> truly go over to the Dark Side? Something that at the moment, I
> don't think Draco is real eager to do. But Draco is also caught
> between a rock and a hard place; does he trust Snape enough to
> confess that he wants out? 

Jen: That's a very interesting thought. Snape didn't overhear 
Dumbledore's offer and Draco wouldn't risk telling him about it, 
believing Snape to be on Voldemort's side. So how can Snape really 
protect Draco? Undoubtedly Lucius will be out of Azkaban and 
expecting a father/son DE reunion, which also complicates matters. 
Hmmm, no ideas on this one. Unless Lucius and Narciss have had 
enough? It's one thing to torture other people, but they all got a 
taste of what Voldemort is willing to do to his supporters, and 
perhaps it was enough to think about Plan B. Lucius never struck me 
as someone sold on the whole Voldemort returning bit anyway.

Steve/bboyminn: 
> Plus, if he really intends to work Dumbledore's plan, his position
> amoung the Death Eaters is also dangerously precarious. Before
> Snape spent all his time at the school, and only had to pretent to
> be a DE for a meeting now and then. Now Snape will have to spend
> all his time hiding from the Aurors, and associating with only the
> DE's and the Dark Lord. Snape is very much under a microscope now.
> The slightest misstep could mean the end for him. 

Jen: I wonder how the Occlumency will hold up under serious 
observation? And also, if anything that happened will make Snape's 
skills crack? He has to be a great compartmentalizer to be a superb 
Occlumens, but his two worlds clashed violently on the tower. 
Keeping emotions at bay, whatever they might be, will take greater 
effort. 

Steve bboyminn:
> So far, no one seems aware that Harry has used or attempted to use
> Unforgivables. I wonder what Ron and Hermione would say if they
> knew? 

"Harry you can't do that, you heard Moody, they'll send you to 
Azkaban! Dumbledore wouldn't want you to use Unforgiveables."

"Give him a break Hermione, he has to kill Volde....erm, him 
(Hermione rolls her eyes) and Snape deserved it! It's just too bad 
Harry didn't actually get one to work so Snape would be in Azkaban 
already."

Heh, just thought I'd give it a try.

Steve: 
> Harry has been given a pathetic set of Dueling skills and 
> resources. If he had a full complement of Charms, Spells, Curses,
> and Counter-Curses, and finely honed skills, he wouldn't have to
> resort to Unforgivables. Given that all he has to work with are
> schoolyard bullying jinxes and the Unforgivables with nothing
> practical inbetween, they have really left Harry kind of
> powerless. When schoolyard jinxes and curses aren't enough, Harry
> has no were to go but to the dark and unforgivable. 

Jen:
Harry wants to make Bella and Snape pay for hurting the people he 
loved. Rage, pain, and vengeance are at the root of his use of 
Unforgiveables. You know, this thought reminds me of that scene in 
Dumbledore's office between Voldemort and DD:

"But nothing I have seen in the world has supported your famous 
pronouncements that love is more powerful than my kind of magic, 
Dumbledore." 

"Perhaps you have been looking in the wrong places." (chap. 20, p. 
444, Scholastic)

Harry resorting to Unforgiveables is looking in the 'wrong place' to 
solve his problem. Dumbledore told him several times where his power 
is, within himself, and his power is much stronger than Voldemort's 
type of magic. Harry just has to believe it, is all. Sort of like 
Dorothy clicking her heels and believing she will get back to Kansas 
<g>.

Jen