[HPforGrownups] Re: The Possibilities of Grey Snape/Dumbledore/Harry

[Kathryn Jones]

No: HPFGUIDX 143093

lealess wrote:

major snip
   Problem is, it would still suit an epic journey story.

KJ writes:
    I fell as though this is an epic journey story. Things have been set 
in motion decades before, leaving Harry holding the bag. Tom Riddle's 
mad heritage, the choice of his mother, the choice of his father, 
Dumbledore's choice in retrieving him from the orphanage, and so on 
through to the chices made to this point in time. While there is a sense 
of inevitability in the story, all of the choices, right or wrong have 
been clearly laid out, while the explanations for some of those choices 
have been hidden. It is now up to Harry to make his choice. He is the 
last one left that has yet to make the determining choice of his life. 
As the key character, I think that the whole story has come down to the 
choices that Harry now makes that will impact the same way on those who 
follow after him.

Lealess
> Maybe JKR is subverting readers' expectations of her message, having
> to do with choice and love.  Only sacrificial love measures up to the
> gold standard in the books, and only if done for the Good.  Mother
> love can be dubious.  Romantic love can weaken those it affects, but
> probably only if they are going against predestination.  The love of
> friends seems good, but doesn't hold up to Secret Keeping strains.
> There is love for the leader -- problematic.  I think it's safe to say
> Rowling shows the social realist downside of love at least as often as
> its mythic positive side.

KJ writes:
   To me it is more that she contrasts the effects of mother's love. 
Harry's mother gave her life, Tom's mother fled her life, Narcissa 
offered up Snape's life, and Neville's mother has only life. The 
differences of these mothers have had a crucial affect on the lives of 
their children. Again there is a contrast between Molly as a mother and 
Petunia as a mother, and the resulting personalities of the children due 
to the difference styles of child-rearing. I don't think that she is 
making any statement, so much as considering concepts or asking us to 
consider concepts. All of these mothers are strong for good or ill 
except what we see of Merope and what we take to be Snape's mother. I 
suspect that the realistic viewpoint is what holds the attention of the 
adult readers of Harry Potter. Friends, no matter how close argue and 
squabble, feel jealousy of one another, and only James Bond never caves 
under pressure, torture or fear.

Lealess
> Choice, or even the possibility of it, is also a scarce commodity in
> the books.  The wizarding world is full of magical constraints: life
> debts, unbreakable vows, DADA curses, goblet contracts, prophecies
> which become effective through the action of one person only, the
> sorting hat which students believe selects based on innate
> character, even if JKR says it isn't so.  Then there are social
> constraints: blood, family and class.

  KJ writes:
    I think that this is in contrast, in some ways, to the excitement 
and adventure of the first two books where Harry and Hermione were 
discovering magic and all of the things it could do. As they grew, they 
began to understand the destructive side of magic, the scary side and 
the resultingly difficult choices that came with the gifts. Ron already 
understood that inherent danger. The books are now being contrasted, to 
some extent with real life, where we can't afford it, are afraid to take 
a chance, don't have enough information, or time, don't receive 
sufficient support from our family and suffer a hundred little problems 
a day. Choices are hard things to make and sometimes we only have a 
choice of bad choices to work with. Choices are another one of those 
things that, once made, are apt to come back and bite you in the arse. 
With all choices come the inevitable bill which has to be paid.

Lealess
  Harry has accepted his preordained role, right?

  KJ writes:
    The one point that Dumbledore really tried to impress upon Harry was 
that he was not being dragged helplessly onto the field of battle to be 
killed. Harry understood that knowing what Voldemort had done, having 
killed Harry's parents, he had the choice to hide away from Voldemort or 
go after him as soon as he was able. Harry can choose his own timing, or 
at least as far as the last book allows for it, and for his own reasons 
instead of self-defense.

Lealess
   As for Snape,it was futile for him to even try to change his life if his
  fate was set all along, as it surely must seem now.  This, to me, is
> essentially a message of hopelessness, a message repeated by
> underprivileged kids I see every day... but, it's very subversive
> against the more "politically correct" messages which seek to free
> people from social constraints that seem every bit as tenacious as
> magical ones.

KJ writes:
   I think that Snape did change his life although he may be one of 
those people who blame all of their poor choices on other people or 
depend on others to make any good choices. He may have relied too much 
on other people to make his choices for him and as a result has no real 
self-reliance, or confidence in his own decision-making abilities. He 
seems to be more blown about by the fickle winds of change than Harry. 
Harry is really quite adaptable. Perhaps Snape has been too afraid to 
break free from those constraints and as a result resents everything in 
his life. I'm not even convinced that his actions in the tower scene 
were of his own choosing. Perhaps his anger at being called a coward was 
because he felt like a coward for simply doing as he was asked instead 
of making a more heroic choice.
KJ