Snape-the Hero -- Snape-the Abuser

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 143118

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "lupinlore" <bob.oliver at c...> wrote:
> 
> Lupinlore wrote:
> ....edited...
> ... So, Harry is simply supposed to trust in DD despite the 
> fact that he tolerates the abuse of Snape and the Dursleys, 
> ..., and despite, finally, his own witness of DD's murder? 
> ...
> 
> ... If these lessons involve making a hero out of a child 
> abuser, and that is what Snape most definitely is, I'd say 
> they are indeed morally revolting and reprehensible.  ...
> 
> ... If JKR simply waves her hands and dismisses Snape's abuse, 
> especially with the reprehensible excuse that it was part of 
> some fool plan of Dumbledore's to "prepare" Harry for his 
> destiny, then once again there is a great cloud [of dung] 
> ....
> 
> As for the Crucio, ... imperative ... that Harry not use it.  
> Interestingly enough, Snape's use of the AK seems perfectly 
> all right.  Now why on Earth is that?  Because it  was part 
> of DD's plan?  Or because Our Lord and Savior Severus Snape 
> has, by definition, only Harry's best interests at heart 
> ...
> 
> Lupinlore


bboyminn:

Please, no offense, but I think you are engaging in a case of
selective reading and overstating.

Given Snape's actions through out the stories, in one sense there can
only be grey!Snape. Even if he ultimately acts for the side of good in
the end, that doesn't make him a hero or truly redeem his previous
actions. Though in some cases it might explain them. We must remember
that even amoung the Good Guys there can be bad guys. In that sense,
there is no guarantee that a Good person is a nice person, or for that
matter, that a Bad person can't be thoroughly pleasant. 

I think we have to ask if anyone is really trying to make Snape out as
the Hero? I really don't think so. He can be on the side of good and
still be forced to do bad things; such is the nature of war. Further
we can explain and understand Snape motivations for his actions; for
example, in killing Dumbledore, but just because we can explain and
understand doesn't mean we forgive, nor does it mean we elevate him to
the status of hero.

On a side note; I think this is one of the failings of excessively
liberal society - to explain is to forgive. 'My daddy never hugged
me'; well, it alright that you murdered him then, we can certainly
understand'. 

Back to the central subject; I think the main question is whether
Snape has really defected to Voldemort, or whether, despite killing
Dumbledore, Snape is really still on the side of Good, and whether in
the final scene, Snape will act for the side of good. 

Either he will or he won't. But either way Snape will never be a nice
person. Even if, in the end, Snape lays down his life to help Harry,
that counts for something, but it doesn't undo the fact that Snape
killed Dumbledore. That fact can never be undone. 

However, it can be explained, it can be understood, a fair,
reasonable, and justifiable context can be established, but the wizard
world is never going to say 'oh well, I didn't know that Dumbledore
never hugged you; I guess it's alright that you killed him then'.
While we may seek to justify, explain, and understand Snape's action;
that really doesn't mean we forgive him, and it certainly doesn't mean
we have elevated him to the status of 'Hero'. 

On the subject of Snape's general abuse of Harry, indeed I think
Snape's alleged abuse of Harry will be passed over. That is, Snape
will never truly be called to task for it. I believe this partly
because, with only one book left, I don't think there is time to run
off on that tangent. We all saw what Snape did, and we can all draw
our own conclusions. 

Further with all the cases of horrific and unconscionable abuse
against children that occurs in the world, I hesitate to call Snape's
actions Abuse. Snape is a nasty mean vindictive teacher, and as
unpleasant as it is, it pales when compared to true Abuse. 

Back to the original point, Snape may be able to justify his killing
of Dumbledore, he may be able to establish a context that explains his
action in a way that the wizard world understands. But Snape, even
under the very very very best of circumstances will never be elevated
to the status of hero. The wizard world will never forget that Snape
snuffed out the life of a great wizard, true hero, and ally. At best,
they will understand and therefore tollerate Snape's present in the
wizard world, but never a hero.

That which can be explained, even that which can be justified, can't
necessarily be forgiven.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn