12 OWLs/CanOpener/SecretTunnel/Petunia/Unforgivables/ThoseCloseCalls/Teacher

[Catlady (Rita Prince Winston)]

No: HPFGUIDX 143283

MercuryBlue wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143018 :

<< the question of just how can anyone get twelve O.W.L.s... >>

IIRC, Hermione received her 11 OWLs in:

1. Astronomy
2. Care Of Magical Creatures
3. Charms
4. DADA
5. Herbology
6. History of Magic
7. Potions
8. Transfiguration
9. Ancient Runes
10. Arithmancy
11. ?????  

Divination and Arithmancy were only half-day exams, so if Ancient
Runes (that Hermione took while Harry and Ron had Friday off) was 
also a half-day exam, she could have taken another half-day exam 
that same day. Some listies have suggested that she (and every other
Muggle-born) could ace the Muggle Studies OWL without taking the class
(altho' I think they'd fail for failing to give the erroneous answers
taught in class). I suggest instead that the wizarding world is so
different from the Muggle world that there could be an OWL exam that
only prefects are allowed to take (so Harry wouldn't know about it,
and Ron doesn't seem the type to take any more OWL exams than he HAS
to), with questions about leadership and discipline and authority.

I had another idea, that one History of Magic exam tests for 2 OWLs,
maybe one for the BC History of Magic and one for the AD History of
Magic. I don't know if seeing Harry's OWL results blows that out of
the water, or if it can be argued that they don't further depress
people who failed both by telling them that they missed TWO
qualifications.

In any case, I don't understand how Hermione only got 11 OWLs when
Bill and Percy got 12. She has been established as an unusually
outstanding student that doesn't come along as often as every 4 years,
and they wouldn't have passed Muggle Studies by being Muggle-born. If
they both got both 2 History OWLs and Prefect OWL, why didn't she?

Darqali wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143023 :

<< {I don't know what wizards use for a can opener, for example. I use
an old hand type, though I know there are electric models. I expect
wizards open cans sometimes, but don't wonder why we don't see what
they use in place of an electric can opener because there is no need
for JKR to tell us.} >>

I expect they just tap the can with their wand, or maybe the cans are
enchanted to open themselves when a painted dot on the lid is pressed
-- that way, children too young for a wand could also open a can.

CH3ed wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143034 :

<< Why is there a secret passage from Hogwarts to Honeydukes' 
cellar? >>

A candy shop will get more profit from teen-age frequent customers
than a magical devices shop, a book shop, a stationery shop, etc,
therefore Honeydukes has more motive to provide Hogwarts students 
with an easy access than the other Hogsmead shops do. (I don't think
Hogsmead *has* a teen-age trendy clothing shop to buy 200-Galleon
trainers and 800-Galleon jumpers, because the school uniform means 
the kids don't get much chance to wear trendy stuff during the school
year.)

(And a shout-out to 143034
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143081 who went
from students using it to shop at Honeydukes to wondering if any of
the Death Eaters had used it when they were students.)

PJ midnightowl wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143058 :

<< Petunia isn't a "regular" muggle. Her sister was a Witch and both
her Brother-in-law and nephew were/are Wizards. She was well aware of
all this and just what it entailed when they took Harry in. Their
desire not to have anything to do with the WW goes down the tubes once
they *willingly* take a Wizard into their homes to raise! >>

DD said Petunia took Harry 'grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly,
bitterly, yet still she took you' (OoP Chapter 37). 

I think that means she took him willingly if 'willingly' means 'not
under Imperius or Confundus or a Love Potion' but unwillingly if
'willingly' means 'not under threats'. DD may have been 'too noble' to
threaten Petunia that he would curse Dudley if she didn't take Harry,
but I don't think he was too noble to tell her that the people who
killed Lily would come after her family just to 'collect the set' (to
borrow Slughorn's phrase from another context) and that he would give
the Dursleys magical protection ONLY if she took Harry.

Steve bboyminn wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143066 :

<< Harry has been given a pathetic set of Dueling skills and
resources. If he had a full complement of Charms, Spells, Curses, 
and Counter-Curses, and finely honed skills, he wouldn't have to
resort to Unforgivables. Given that all he has to work with are
schoolyard bullying jinxes and the Unforgivables with nothing
practical inbetween, they have really left Harry kind of powerless.
When schoolyard jinxes and curses aren't enough, Harry has no were 
to go but to the dark and unforgivable. >>

That's what his Triwizard preparation was about (from the author, I
guess, rather than from Dumbledore, as DD had no intention of entering
him into the Tournament). There, we saw him fight off Grindylows with
'Relashio!" and use 'Reducto!' to blow a hole (neither as deep as a
well nor as wide as a church door, but it sufficed) in the hedges, and
also use the Stunning Curse.

As Jen said in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143086 :
<< Rage, pain, and vengeance are at the root of his use of
Unforgiveables. >> 

It could be considered ironic that if Harry had kept enough control
over his emotions to think what curse to use on Bella instead of
lashing out, he could have cast Stupefy and captured her, or Relashio
with a good chance of burning her to death.

Juli wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143128 :

<< Aurors have used Unforgivables, presumably without horrible damage
to their souls, because their intent was Good. >>

Aurors have used Unforgiveables without being thrown into Azkaban or
otherwise punished, because the wizarding government had authorized
Aurors to use Unforgiveables because of the war. Canon tells us
nothing of whether it damaged their souls. It may be that using
Unforgiveables with good intentions and legal authorization
nonetheless did damage to souls. 

I think a torn soul can be mended but still has scars (when part of a
torn soul is caged in a Horcrux, then it cannot grow back to the rest
of the soul like torn flesh grows back together). 

I don't know if Alastor or Frank or Alice ever cast Unforgiveables --
Sirius said something about Moody never killed if he could capture
instead, and there are other ways to kill than AK. But it *could* be
that well-intended, necessary, even heroic killing in the line of duty
to protect the innocent civilians left scars on their souls that made
them more vulnerable to madness. Was Moody's paranoia the result of
his experiences or was it his personality to start with?

Lucianam wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143142 :

<< There's no denying AK is 'unforgivable', since it is classified as
such in canon. I'm not sure its unforgivability is absolute, though.
Sure, we have three horrible curses that will get you a life-long
sentence in Azkaban, but notice they won't get you a death sentence.
Wizarding law won't torture you to madness either, in case that was
the crime you committed. >>

A life sentence to Azkaban with Dementors IS being tortured to madness.

Alla wrote in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143143 :

<< I do disagree with your last example, I have to say. I am assuming
that you are specifically talking about Marauders running around with
Remus, right? I consider those excursions NOT to be the case of
selfishness, but poorly executed case of noble intentions - to be
there for their friend in the situation of need. And we DO know that
Remus needed them not just for fun, but because he was calmer with
Prongs and Padfoot around, no? >>

Nitpick: their noble intention of keeping Remus company (and more
sane) while he was transformed was well (altho' illegally) executed 
by being illegal Animagi so they could break curfew by hanging out
with him all night in the Shrieking Shack. But then, as Remus said,
'highly exciting possibilities were open to us now that we could all
transform. Soon we were leaving the Shrieking Shack and roaming the
school grounds and the village by night.'

The helpfulness turned to selfishness when they grabbed at those
'highly exciting' possibilities. DEFINITELY innocent selfishness: at
least the three non-werewolves didn't really believe that anyone could
get hurt, as they were confident that 'Sirius and James transformed
into such large animals, they were able to keep a werewolf in check.'

(And a shout-out to Sydney who spoke before I did in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143163 )

Pippin replied to Alla in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143151 :

<< If they had been robbing the villagers' homes in order to provide
their impoverished friend with some well-deserved spending money,
would that have been poorly executed noble intentions too? >>

Well, yes. The intention would have been noble (the cliche of Robin
Hood) altho' the execution would have been quite selfish. Innocently
selfish, as you mentioned previously, as at least James and Sirius,
maybe Peter as well, came from rich families and might well not have
realised that there ISN'T ALWAYS plenty more in the Gringotts vault.

<< They were robbing the villagers of their safety and that's just as
bad. >>

I don't agree with you, I don't think I can explain why, except for
some vague gobbledegook about violating a person's home ... anyone who
stayed in their house at night was safe, as the Marauders weren't
breaking into houses. The analogy would be stealing bicycles that were
left outside rather than robbing homes.

<< I suppose Fenrir just has poorly executed noble intentions,
also, since all he wants is companionship and a better life for
werewolves. >>

Now THAT is altogether unworthy of you. You read too well and closely
not to have noticed that Fenrir is seeking pain on the parents, not
the campanionship of new young werewolves nor the perpetuation of the
werewolf way of life, and that he DOESN'T want a better life for
werewolves, except presumably to the limited extent of eliminating
werewolf hunters ... he LIKES living feral.

Sydney added in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143168 :

<<  By 'close calls', I assume that people were endangered but 
the situation was averted in the nick of time. Responsible people 
in charge of dangerous animals do not involve them in 'many close
calls'. >>

I have to question just HOW close those calls were. If one drunk 
saw a werewolf running at him and a stag and a big dog run at the
werewolf and push it away from him, everyone who heard the story 
would tell him that he'd been seeing things. But if many drunks and 
a few sober people with perfectly good reasons for being out after
dark saw an attacking werewolf and their pair of animal saviors, word
would have gotten around. Not just word that 'there's a werewolf in
the Forbidden Forest', but word of the stag and big dog working
together to save humans. (If the saviors were two of the same kind of
animal, it would have been somewhat less freaky.) Dumbledore would
have figured out what was going on, and he would have put a stop to
it, by 'reminding' James of how much risk he was putting his friend
Remus in. Because James wouldn't have listened to a boring old
scolding about how much danger he was putting the villagers in; he
would say (and believe) 'They're perfectly safe; we're in control of
the werewolf.'

Deborah wrote in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/143188 :

<< And being a wizarding/witching teacher in the UK means that career
opportunities are not superabundant, unless one goes off to the
(former) colonies and teaches in New Zealand or Bangla Desh. >>

I fantasize that there are job opportunities as tutors for adults who
have discovered the usefulness of a subject they blew off in school.
As there is Kwikspel, shouldn't there also be Adult School (night school)?