What is poetic justice? WAS: Re: Snape-the Hero -- Snape-the Abuser

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 143284


Betsy HP:

> I do see a huge difference between cruelty and poetic justice.  
> Going back to the movie "A Christmas Story," when Richie beat up 
the 
> bully, that was poetic justice.  If his *father* had beaten up the 
> bully, that would be cruelty.
> 
> If Harry had jumped Draco all by himself on the quidditch pitch in 
> OotP, that could have been poetic justice.  Jumping Draco with a 
> loaded fist and the backup of a Weasley twin was cruelty.  Hagrid 
> giving Dudley a pig's tail because he was mad at Vernon was 
> cruelty.  The twins strangling Dudley was cruelty.  The twins 
nearly 
> killing Montague was cruelty.  Harry using the basilisk's fang to 
> destroy the diary was poetic justice.
> 
> It's a question of power.  Watching someone powerful stick it to 
> someone weaker is not a great example of poetic justice, IMO.  



Alla:

Well, personally I think all those incidents ARE poetic justice, 
because none of those characters got hurt out of nowhere, but 
because of something they did earlier, but if you dislike calling 
it "poetic justice", I think " karmic retribution" or "vicarious 
retribution" is just perfect, no?

Again, I interpret " vicarious retribution" as retribution for 
something bad which character did, but terms of the story will not 
let the author punish the character directly.

Let's put aside Draco for a second, because  we will never agree on 
what kind of punishment he deserves, I suspect. :-)

Let's look at Dudley. Hagrid indeed gave him a pig tail because he 
was mad at Vernon ( quite deservingly, I'd say, but of course Hagrid 
should have done it to Vernon), BUT I can also interpret Hagrid 
doing to Dudley as carmic retribution for all those years of "Harry 
hunting" Dudley and gang engaged in.

So, do I think that THAT crime of Dudley is not proportionate to the 
punishment? Nope, I think it much LESS than Dudley deserved, but 
constraints of the story would not let JKR come out and say 
something like " Dudley, you are so bad, you should be punished for 
what you did to Harry". It is also would be rather awkward writing ( 
IMO only), so Dudley gets undirect punishment, which is done again 
IMO for the emotional satisfaction of some readers ( myself 
definitely included).

It is indeed a question of power, BUT it is very telling IMO that in 
the interaction between Dudley and Hary, Harry is the weakest, so it 
is immensely satisfying to me to see the balance of power switching 
even if Harry is not  the one who does the punishment yet. I think 
those " undirect punishments" are quite common for the series and 
personally I love it.

JMO of course,

Alla.