CHAPDISC: HBP4, Horace Slughorn

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 143313

<snip Alla's thorough summary>
I can't believe I'm the first person to answer the questions. It's a
bit daunting, but here goes:
 
> 1. Consider the following quote from this chapter: Dumbledore:
"However, I do not think you need worry about being attacked tonight."
Harry: "Why not, sir?"
"You are with me," said Dumbledore simply.   
Now look at this quote in chapter 26,"The Cave:"
"I am not worried Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little 
stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you." 
> 
> Do you see any symbolic connection between these two quotes?

Carol:
Absolutely. It's clear that they are deliberately parallel, set up so
that the reader will notice the second reference, remember the first,
and understand immediately that Dumbledore and Harry have traded
places, with Harry as the powerful "adult" and dumbledore as the
helpless "child." It's unnerving to the reader and to Harry to have
Dumbledore dependent on him in "The Cave"; it's always been the other
way around. (Even the least perceptive reader must realize at that
point that Harry is about to lose his mentor; the symbolic passing of
the mantle is all too clear.) In "Horace Slughorn," however, the
relationship is still deceptively normal: Dumbledore is in charge;
he's the one with the answers; he's the one who can Apparate. The only
sign that things are changing is the mysterious blackened hand, which
DD so maddeningly refuses to explain. But Harry Apparates (with help)
twice in this chapter, providing a bit of an initiation into the adult
world and foreshadowing chapter 27, when he will perform Side-Along
Apparition (illegally) with the dying Dumbledore in tow.
> 

> 2. When Albus says, "Lord Voldemort has finally realized the 
dangerous access to his thoughts and feelings you have been enjoying,"
does he mean that in OOP Voldemort had no idea that Harry had access
to his thoughts and feelings? Wasn't it necessary for Voldemort to
know that Harry would receive the vision of Sirius in order for his
plan to lure Harry to MoM to be successful? In other words, I thought
that Voldemort was aware of the connection during OOP. Are we supposed
to think that he was not? How does Dumbledore know that Voldemort is
now employing Occlumency against Harry?

Carol:
Interesting question. I haven't read OoP in awhile and I can't
remember exactly when LV first realized that Harry was vicariously
experiencing his most vivid emotions, actually living them as if he
were Voldemort (was it the snake dream that alerted him?). But
certainly he knows about it before the end of OoP and plots with the
Malfoys and Kreacher to trap Harry into going to the MoM through a
false vision. But he didn't want a two-way connection--Harry accessing
his thoughts at any time, either deliberately or arbitrarily. I think
that Dumbledore simply knows how "Tom's" mind works and deduces
correctly that when the scar connection not only fails to accomplish
LV's objective but actually places him in danger of having his secrets
exposed (revealed by Harry to Dumbledore), LV's next move will
probably be to close the connection through Occlumency.
> 
> 3. Horace Slughorn tells Dumbledore that he did not have time to set
the Dark Mark over the House. "The Dark Mark," he muttered. "Knew
there was something 
 ah well. Wouldn't have had time anyway" I
realize that I am missing something obvious here, but it bugs me
nevertheless. Can anybody set the Dark Mark? Anybody who has no
connections with Death Eaters at all? I am guessing that since Winky 
was accused of doing so in GoF, the answer is probably yes, but the
suggestion  that a house elf had done it was met with such disbelief
that maybe not anybody could do it? What do you think?

Carol:
I wondered the same thing. Winky "is not knowing how to do it" because
she doesn't know the spell and has never used a wand, but also surely
she'd have to produce a mental image of the Dark Mark and *want* to
cast it, which seems inconceivable. The very idea seems to terrify
her. But Slughorn is a Wizard, and seemingly a pretty powerful one
since he's a furnituremorphagus (sorry--I don't know the Latin term
for furniture!). Quite possibly he knows the spell although, despite
being the former head of Slytherin, he doesn't seem to knowingly
associate with Death Eaters. Still, the idea that he could and would
cast a spell exclusively associated with Death Eaters--their master's
mark, the sign that a murder has been committed--makes me leery of
Slughorn. Is he the jovial old man he seems, slightly prejudiced
against Muggleborns and certainly selfish and manipulitive but
otherwise a "good guy"? I don't know, Alla, but it bugs me, too.
> 

> 4. If Horace had been "out of touch with everybody for a year," how
does Dumbledore know that he is now hiding in charming village of
Budleigh Babberton?

Carol:
Good question! Maybe the strange instruments in his office? It's clear
that he didn't announce his visit and yet Slughorn knows what he
wants, so maybe they've been communicating by owl, but DD wouldn't
need to know his address to send a letter that way. I don't think he
has the false memory yet, either. Maybe someone has been spying on
Slughorn? Can a Disapparating person be followed by someone who
doesn't know his intended destination?
> 

> 5. When I was preparing the questions for this chapter discussion, I
could not shake the feeling that I am having Mark Evans de ja vu. Why?
Because I started seeing symbolism where JKR probably had no intention
to write anything symbolic. Nevertheless, when Albus asks Slughorn
whether he needs his assistance in cleaning up and Slughorn answers
positively, I for some reason saw the possible foreshadowing of
Gryffindor and Slytherin cooperation. Am I seeing things?  "They stood
back to back, the tall thin wizard and the short round one, and waved 
> their wands in one identical sweeping motion."

Carol:
I don't know. I like the thought, but it's clear that they won't be
working together in person in HBP. And IMO, we've been seeing
Gryffindor/Slytherin cooperation through six books in the form of
Dumbledore and Snape.
> 
> 6. Slughorn claims that he spilled dragon blood on the walls, when
he was preparing his little charade. He also says that it may still be
reusable. How do you think it could be reusable after already being
spilled? Dragon blood keeps showing up in the series. Do you think it
may play important role in the ending? Do you think it already played
the important role in the beginning, but we may not know about it yet?
What do you think?

Carol:
Dusty dragon's blood play a role? I don't know. So far we've been
deprived of knowing the twelve uses of dragon's blood and it would be
nice to learn at least one of them in Book 7, so it's possible that
we'll see that bottle again. (Harry needs dragon's blood to uncurse a
Horcrux? Seems improbable.) But that scene bothered me for two
reasons. DD is an expert on the uses of dragon's blood so he should
have recognized it immediately (maybe he did but didn't speak; all the
mentions is the absence of the Dark Mark). Also, when Harry breaks the
bowl of murtlap essence in OoP he repairs the bowl but the narrator
says something like "there was no putting the murtlap essence back in
the bowl." The best they can do is Evanesco it to clean up the mess.
So it seems odd that splattered blood of any variety can be put back
in its vial. A Flint, maybe.
> 
> 
> 7. If Horace has been "out of touch with everybody for a year", how
does he know about Dumbledore's injury? Is there any significance that
he describes the reason for the injury basically the same way Snape
describes it to Bella in "Spinner's end"?
> 
> Horace's words are, "Reactions not what they were, I see."
 
> Snape, in the relevant part of conversation, says basically the same
thing: "He has since sustained a serious injury because his 
> reactions are slower than they once were." – p.31. (US.ed).

Carol:
I don't think he knows any more about the injury than Harry does; he
sees it and arrives at the conclusion that Dumbledore is slower than
he used to be. I think it's only coincidence that his assumption is
identical to the explanation that Snape and Dumbledore have previously
agreed on (neither wants to say that Dumbledore went after a Horcrux
and Snape cured him of its curse). Dumbledore is a very old man, over
150, and the slowed reflexes provide a partially true explanation that
isn't the real explanation. So when Slughorn, who is also getting old,
comes up with the same explanation on his own, Dumbledore doesn't
correct him. In fact, he uses it himself in explaining it the Death
Eaters on the tower. It's just one example of many where Snape and
Dumbledore use the partial truth tactic. In this case, I'm pretty sure
that they agreed upon a tale.
> 

> 
> 8. Would you agree that Slughorn seems to be *too* unconcerned about
Dumbledore's injury? If you disagree, why?

Carol:
I don't think so. I think he takes Dumbledore's reticence as a sign
that he doesn't want to talk about it. Or possibly there's a bit of
mutual understanding or even Legilimency going on and Slughorn, who
recognizes the ring, puts two and two together Snape-fashion and
realizes that the now-cracked ring is a former Horcrux and the source
of the injury.
> 
> 
> 9. What was your very first impression of Horace Slughorn?  I mean,
particularly, if it's possible for you to recall before you read
anything about him on the HPFGU.

Carol:
I was suspicious of him because of the Dark Mark comment, but I didn't
instantly abhor him as I did with Umbridge. At this point, of course,
I thought he was the new DADA teacher and would be out the door at the
end of the book. (Why didn't you write it that way, JKR?) Basically,
he seemed like just another somewhat interesting but expendable
character. 
> 
> 10. We know that Harry does not ask questions about his parents even
in those rare situations when he has the chance to do so. Here Harry
meets the man who taught his mother, who seems to like his mother very
much and Harry is still not asking him any questions about Lily. What
do you think about it?

Carol:
Harry doesn't like the way Slughorn casually talked about Sirius
despite knowing that he was dead (did he also know that he was a
member of the OoP? Was that in the papers?) or his attitude toward
Muggleborns, so I can see why he wouldn't be inclined to ask this
particular man about his mother. I think when he's ready, he'll ask
the only man who was really close to both James and Lily, Remus Lupin.
(And he'd better do it in Book 7 because that's the last chance we've
got to find this stuff out!)


Thanks for the interesting questions, Alla. I have one more that you
didn't ask: Does anyone besides me think that the overstuffed chair
into which Dumbledore poked his wand showed signs of magical
concealment? If not, how would he know that Horace had transfigured
himself into *that* particular chair? And if so, is this little
incident a foreshadowing of the magical concealment motif (the ring
and the locket) later in the book?

Carol