CHAPDISC: HBP4, Horace Slughorn

[horridporrid03]

No: HPFGUIDX 143317

> >>Alla: 
> CHAPTER DISCUSSIONS: Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince,       
> Chapter 4,Horace Slughorn.
> <snip> 

> QUESTIONS. 
> 1. Consider the following quote from this chapter:
> Dumbledore: "However, I do not think you need worry about being 
> attacked tonight."
> Harry: "Why not, sir?"
> "You are with me," said Dumbledore simply.   
> Now look at this quote in chapter 26,"The Cave:"
> "I am not worried Harry," said Dumbledore, his voice a little 
> stronger despite the freezing water. "I am with you." 
> Do you see any symbolic connection between these two quotes?

Betsy Hp:
Definitely.  As Carol said, it symbolizes Dumbledore passing the 
torch to Harry.  And it raises a question for me: Is Dumbledore that 
aware of his limited time in "The Cave" chapter?  Did he suspect 
that he wouldn't be around for much longer?  Because he's very sure 
of himself and his power, injury and all, in the "Horace Slughorn" 
chapter.
 
> 2. When Albus says, "Lord Voldemort has finally realized the 
> dangerous access to his thoughts and feelings you have been 
> enjoying," does he mean that in OOP Voldemort had no idea that    
> Harry had access to his thoughts and feelings? Wasn't it necessary 
> for Voldemort to know that Harry would receive the vision of      
> Sirius in order for his plan to lure Harry to MoM to be           
> successful? In other words, I thought that Voldemort was aware of 
> the connection during OOP. Are we supposed to think that he was   
> not? How does Dumbledore know that Voldemort is now employing      
> Occlumency against Harry?

Betsy Hp:
I think most of Dumbldore's Voldemort info., especially the intimate 
stuff, comes from Snape.  And I wonder, because Voldemort *is* aware 
of Harry's access to his mind in OotP, if Snape and Dumbledore 
didn't cook up a tiny fib about Harry's ability to access 
Voldemort's mind after the DoM battle.  Obviously Voldemort had 
complete control of his mind-link with Harry in OotP.  So why does 
he totally shut down that access now?  If Snape and Dumbledore 
decided that Harry really was horrible at Occlumency and he'd never 
fully grasp the skill, wouldn't it make sense to try and shut down 
the connection at the other end?  Maybe tell Voldemort that 
Dumbledore has some ideas on how to use Harry to access Voldemort's 
mind and encourage Voldemort to do the work for them?  Total 
speculation of course, and a bit off topic, but it makes for a good 
tale. <g>
 
> 3. Horace Slughorn tells Dumbledore that he did not have time to   
> set the Dark Mark over the House. 
> <snip>
> Can anybody set the Dark Mark? Anybody who has no connections with 
> Death Eaters at all?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
The Dark Mark is really just a shiny light display in the end, isn't 
it?  I mean, it doesn't *do* anything but hang there and sparkle.  
So it seems that any wizard or witch with the right skill level 
(whatever skill level that is) could approximate a Dark Mark if they 
wanted to.  They might not get the curve of the snake right, or the 
proper shade of green, but they'd get something close, I'd imagine.

This didn't bother me, but that's probably because it didn't bother 
Dumbledore.  He was the one to point out it was missing after all.  
So it didn't send up any red-flags for me.  I *did* wonder about the 
implication that every single Death Eater attack *has* to have a 
Dark Mark floating over it when all is said and done.  Talk about 
overkill.  Voldemort the drama queen strikes again. <g>
 
> 4. If Horace had been "out of touch with everybody for a year,"    
> how does Dumbledore know that he is now hiding in charming village 
> of Budleigh Babberton?

Betsy Hp:
I'm betting Dumbledore kept an eye on old Horace since he left 
Hogwarts.  Partially out of concern for an old friend with so many 
dangerous ties to the Death Eaters, but also because Dumbledore is a 
very good collecter himself.  Not that he actively pursues people 
he's interested in, but I think he does keep a close watch on those 
he finds interesting.  Especially since he's been aware of Tom 
Riddle's machinations for so long.
   
> 5. When I was preparing the questions for this chapter discussion, 
> I could not shake the feeling that I am having Mark Evans de ja    
> vu. Why? Because I started seeing symbolism where JKR probably had 
> no intention to write anything symbolic. Nevertheless, when Albus 
> asks Slughorn whether he needs his assistance in cleaning up and   
> Slughorn answers positively, I for some reason saw the possible   
> foreshadowing of Gryffindor and Slytherin cooperation. Am I seeing 
> things?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
I think there's been forshadowing of Slytherin and Gryffindor 
cooperation since at least OotP with the Sorting Hat's song.  
Harry's rejection of and fear of his Slytherin side is another 
forshadowing of a future reconciliation. 

I agree with what Carol said in her response (message #143313): "And 
IMO, we've been seeing Gryffindor/Slytherin cooperation through six 
books in the form of Dumbledore and Snape."

However, I think the final reconciliation will take place when Harry 
willingly works with a Slytherin.  My money is on Draco.

[Skipping question 6 because I don't even know. <g>]
  
> 7. If Horace has been "out of touch with everybody for a year",   
> how does he know about Dumbledore's injury?

Betsy Hp:
It looks to me that Slughorn only noticed Dumbledore was injured 
after Dumbledore arrived.

> Is there any significance that he describes the reason for the     
> injury basically the same way Snape describes it to Bella          
> in "Spinner's end"?
> <snip>

Betsy Hp:
Again, I agree with Carol, that this was the most obvious excuse so 
Dumbledore and Snape have decided to go with this particular tale.  
It's always struck me as fake because Dumbledore was so clearly 
*not* suffering from slowed reactions when he battled Voldemort in 
OotP.
 
> 8. Would you agree that Slughorn seems to be *too* unconcerned    
> about Dumbledore's injury? If you disagree, why?

Betsy Hp:
Well, no. Because Dumbledore (very cleverly, IMO) acts like it's no 
big deal.  He doesn't try and hide it, he doesn't flinch when it's 
pointed out.  Why should others worry when he himself does not?

> 9. What was your very first impression of Horace Slughorn?  I      
> mean, particularly, if it's possible for you to recall before you 
> read anything about him on the HPFGU.

Betsy Hp:
I was thrilled Harry finally met a Slytherin he didn't automatically 
hate.  I also thought Slughorn would make a great DADA teacher. <g>  
And I thought that Slughorn was gay in an old-fashioned George 
Bernard Shaw sort of way and admired Harry for more than just his 
scar. 

> 10. We know that Harry does not ask questions about his parents    
> even in those rare situations when he has the chance to do so.    
> Here Harry meets the man who taught his mother, who seems to like 
> his mother very much and Harry is still not asking him any         
> questions about Lily. What do you think about it?

Betsy Hp:
It might be that Harry holds his parents very close and private.  
The Dursleys were so hostile about talking about them, and so 
negative the rare times they did speak of Lily and James.  In a way, 
I think it's very hard for Harry to speak about his parents.  
Whenever he does hear about them it almost seems to hurt him as much 
as it pleases him.  So I'd imagine it'd be that much more difficult 
for him to talk about them with a virtual stranger.

> >>Carol's additional question:
> Does anyone besides me think that the overstuffed chair
> into which Dumbledore poked his wand showed signs of magical
> concealment? If not, how would he know that Horace had transfigured
> himself into *that* particular chair? And if so, is this little
> incident a foreshadowing of the magical concealment motif (the ring
> and the locket) later in the book?

Betsy Hp:
Hmm.  I guess I'd always assumed it was more Dumbledore's great 
powers of observation rather than any particular magical skill.  For 
one, there should have been magical signatures all over the room 
because of Slughorn's work.  For another, it wouldn't be much of a 
protection if there were magical signs, and I think Slughorn is 
supposed to be pretty good at hiding.  Both he and Dumbledore seemed 
to see it as a bit of a friendly competition.  How much time did it 
take, what clue did I give away, etc.

Perhaps it could be seen as a forshadowing of concealment in 
general.  The whole, things aren't always how they first appear, 
sort of thing.

Good questions, Alla!

Betsy Hp (Second!)