PoA - Snape Knew? (w/ canon)

[colebiancardi]

No: HPFGUIDX 143432

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ginny343" <ginny343 at y...> wrote:
>
> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "ginny343" <ginny343 at y...>
> > wrote:
> > > Ginny:
> > > Did Snape really still think Sirius was the Secret Keeper? Even
> > > though LV's supporters knew Peter gave the information?
> > >
> > 
> > c: Hold the presses, Ginny. Where are you getting this information
> > from? There is NO cannon that states that the DE's knew Peter was
> > the secret keeper. And there is cannon that everyone in the
> > wizarding world knew that Sirius was the Secret Keeper who betrayed
> > James & Lily.
> >  
> > colebiancardi
> >
> 
> PoA, Am. 368-
> "You haven't been hiding from me for twelve years," said 
> Black.  "You've been hiding from Voldemort's old supporters. I heard 
> things in Azkaban, Peter. . . They all think you're dead, or you'd 
> have to answer to them. . . . I've heard them screaming all sorts of 
> things in their sleep. Sounds like they think the double-crosser 
> double-crossed them. Voldemort met his downfall there.  And not all 
> Voldemort's supporters ended up in Azkaban, did they? There are still 
> plenty out here, biding their time, pretending they've seen the error 
> of their ways. . . . If they ever got wind that you were still alive, 
> Peter --" 
> 

> Okay, this is the canon that makes me think that the DEs knew Peter 
> was the one who "double-crossed" and gave the information to 
> Voldemort, even though the rest of the wizarding world thought it was 
> Sirius.  It is possible I am reading it wrong or reading too much into 
> it.  At any rate, it sounds like Voldemort's supporters are mad at 
> Peter for some reason.  But if everyone thinks this is nothing and I 
> am off base, I will gladly drop it. :)
> 
> Ginny343
>

ah, but on the next page when Peter is trying to defend himself, he
offers up another reason:
"If Voldemort's supporters were after me, it was because I put one of
their best men in Azkaban - the spy, Sirius Black!"

so, the first thing from the quote you posted.  LV's supporters in
Azkaban are angry at Peter but they do think he is dead.  They think
that Peter was the one who caused the downfall of LV and doublecrossed
him.  So, was it only those supporters in Azkaban that *knew*?  Or
were they insane at that point, ranting with demented prose?  

Lupin stated "Everyone thought Sirius killed Peter" p. 351 Am Ed
Hardcover PoA.   Also, it could be as Peter stated.  If the DE's in
Azkaban were angry at Peter, it could be that it was because of
Sirius's downfall.  No one in the wizarding world thought it was a
stretch for Black to be a DE - he went to prison without even a trial;
 his family were purebloods and they had a dark history.  Even
Sirius's brother was a DE - even though Regulus tried to leave.
 

also, Snape and other supporters have been kept in the dark what
others have done.  Snape didn't know about Lucius & the Diary in CoS,
Snape didn't know about Quirrel, Snape & the other followers didn't
know about Barty Jr, and since Snape was headquartered at Hogwarts at
the time of the Potter's death, I don't think, IMHO, that he received
an owl stating that Peter was the secret keeper.  Remember, this had
to have been done at the last moment.  It was barely a week that had
passed since the Fidelius Charm had been performed.  Also, if Peter is
a spy, I don't think it wise or prudent to shout that out as common
knowledge even amongst the team of DE's.  If one gets caught, such as
Karkaroff did, they could spill the beans.  I don't think LV would
take that chance with his spies.  I wonder if it was common knowledge
amongst all the DE's that Snape was a spy back in the early days.  In
the spy game world, the less people that know your true role, the
better.  I don't think it is even common knowledge amongst all the
Order's members that Snape is spy for DD.  But I could be wrong.  It
is never really talked about. 

The bigger question for me is how long was Peter a DE prior to LV's
downfall in 1981?   He is considered a DE in GoF - Voldy states that
Peter returned to him out of fear, not loyality. 


colebiancardi
(I don't really think Peter was ever a spy - I think he was a traitor
- whether he made the first advance towards LV or LV cornered him - I
think he was fighting for his life and betrayed the Potters.  Now, he
snoops around Snape on LV's orders, but everyone knows it.  That isn't
too spy-like; more like a nuisance)