Snape's childhood WAS: Re: Snape: Hero AND Abuser

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 143588

leslie41:
> The argument that a witch would not allow abuse seems to be to be 
> spurious, akin to asserting that a woman who is rich and capable of 
> leaving her husband would not allow it. Or suggesting that a woman 
> with a gun would not allow it. There is nothing intrinsic about 
> being "magical" that protects one against the willness to endure 
> abuse, mental or physical.  People tolerate it for different 
> reasons.

Ceridwen:
I should probably jump in here.  I think, at least on this current go-
round, that I'm the one who mentioned that Eileen would have too much 
power to wield over a Muggle Tobias, to allow herself to be abused.  
I based this on the WW and its witches who are in positions of power, 
in government, at Hogwarts, and probably in businesses as well (like 
Madam Malkin).  I was suggesting that, culturally, Eileen grew up in 
a world where no witch I've seen (with the exception of Merope Gaunt, 
who came from a very odd family indeed and didn't socialize much, 
from the way I read that scene) would ever tolerate abuse.  Woman 
Subservient is not the WW way.  While, it is, or was, the way in our 
world, for centuries or more.  If Eileen Prince was a Pureblood or 
close enough to it not to have been culturally undermined by Muggle 
values of half a century ago, then it's less likely that she would 
tolerate abuse.  IMO.

And, it seems that Eileen was a more social creature than son Snape.  
She was president of the Gobstones club, which is probably just as 
much of a popularity contest among members as anything, so she did 
get out and about, at least at school.  With the WW being much better 
at parity between the sexes, this has been her environment at least 
from the point of starting school.  It probably was before then, too.

I think you mentioned the Gaunts?  They kept pretty much to 
themselves, it seems.  Speaking Parseltongue, excluding outsiders, 
Merope was not exposed to very much in the way of the WW's attitudes 
concerning women.  She was browbeaten at home, and considered no 
better than a Squib.  If she attended Hogwarts at all, she was 
probably so cowed by that time that she kept to herself there, too.  
But somehow, I doubt if she went.  If she did, she would have known 
that she was no Squib.  (Several people have guessed, assumed and 
speculated that some WW kids are homeschooled, could be the case with 
the Gaunts)  Merope was the direct opposite of the witches we meet in 
the rest of the HP books.  And, it was probably due to her upbringing 
and isolation from other WW folk.  She had no feeling of self-worth, 
so she felt worthless.  Hence the use of a love potion to trap a man, 
the loss of powers (nice analogy, btw) when he turned his back on 
her, standing for the way her father and brother treated her at home, 
probably even losing the will to live and dying just when she was 
beginning to realize her powers and had a child to live for.

leslie41:
> Harry routinely allows himself to be subject to the terrible abuse 
> of the Dursleys, for example.

Ceridwen:
This is the way Harry was raised.  Until he gets to Hogwarts, his 
major experience is of abuse or neglect at one level or another.  
It's as much a part of his world and his being as air or water.  When 
he does unconsciously fight back, it's devastating - Dudley under 
glass, floating Marge.  The big surprise is that the Dursleys 
continue their mistreatment, esp. after things like that.  They come 
off as dull-witted when they purposely ignore a potential disaster 
coming their way.

Since I've never studied psychology formally - the pop variety is all 
over the place, but it's probably not trustworthy - I won't dare go 
into the rest of your message, about Snape's behavior and the parents 
being the 'sun' of the child.  But, these are my impressions of the 
WW, the way women are portrayed and perceived, Merope Gaunt's outside-
the-loop example, and what I think Eileen Prince grew up seeing that 
would have made her much less a candidate for tolerating abuse than 
otherwise strong women in our own world.

Ceridwen.