Gender in the WW

[spotsgal]

No: HPFGUIDX 143599

> Ceriden writes:
> 
> I was suggesting that, culturally, Eileen grew up in a world where 
> no witch I've seen (with the exception of Merope Gaunt, who came 
> from a very odd family indeed and didn't socialize much, from the 
> way I read that scene) would ever tolerate abuse. 
> Subservient is not the WW way.  While, it is, or was, the way in our
> world, for centuries or more

Krista: 
> Women in jobs? Pomfrey's a nurse, Madame Malkin runs a *clothing 
> shop*, and there's whatssherface who runs the tea shop (don't kill 
> me for forgetting her name), none of which rock the boat in terms of 
> making feminist advances.

Christina:

Madame Rosmerta runs the bar, which I would say requires a fair bit of
toughness on her part.

Krista:
> Women at Hogwarts teach herbology, 
> transfiguration, divination (mocked as *not* a hard science), and 
> run the library; only Hooch as, basically, the gym teacher has a 
> job that isn't traditional.

Christina:

I'd say that Herbology (the subject of choice of Neville Longbottom,
by the way, a MALE) goes hand-in-hand with Care of Magical Creatures,
both nurturing jobs that require patience and skill with living
things.  The Herbology teacher might be a woman, but what about
Hagrid- he is one of the most nurturing and motherly characters in the
whole series!  Divination might not be a hard science, but it is also
taught partly by a MALE Centaur.  Transfiguration is by no means
fluffy, and is a serious branch of magic.  It's taught by a woman now,
but it was Dumbledore's field as well.  Also, Professor Sinistra is a
woman who teaches Astronomy.  I'm pretty sure that the Arithmancy
(aka, *math*) teacher, Professor Vector, is also a woman (the Lexicon
says so, but I can't find it in the books).  How's that for untraditional?

There's a great page on the Lexicon here:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/hogwarts_teachers.html

that shows that the faculty/teaching positions at Hogwarts are split
down the middle in terms of gender.  I'd call that pretty progressive.

Krista:
> The girls of the girls' school, Beauxbatons, are presented as sex 
> objects

Christina:

Beauxbatons isn't a girls school though; aren't they co-ed?  I'd argue
that both the girls from Beauxbatons *and* the boys from Durmstrang
are both equally stereotyped.  While we're on the subject of GOF,
isn't Cedric fairly stereotyped as well, as the pretty boy?  Somebody
correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have GOF on me), but didn't one of
the boys comment that he essentially didn't have enough brains to fill
a teacup?

Krista:
> First of all, Hermione--the brightest
> of her age!--is most interesting to the wizarding press 
> readers as a girl with an active social life

Christina:

Hermione is most interesting to the wizarding press readings as a girl
connected to the celebrity Harry Potter, and that connection is though
her social life.  

Krista:
> Bottom line is that I see no reason whatsoever to think the WW has
> made much further advances in gender equality than the rest of the 
> world has.

Christina:

I guess I just don't see what being "feminist" has to do with
Ceriden's arguments.  Every single women in the WW could be a
housewife, and her argument could be completely valid.  The women in
the WW *don't* tolerate abuse, and in the vast majority of cases in
the books, they are completely in control.  Mrs. Weasley is pretty
dominant in her marriage.  Pomfrey is the master of her domain and is
very tough.  Tonks and Lupin disagree on what they believe their
relationship status to be; Tonks refuses to take no for an answer. 
Fleur is extremely assertive at the end of HBP when Mrs. Weasley
assume she won't want to marry Bill.  Harry tells Ginny they can't see
each other anymore, and although we don't know the eventual outcome of
that ship yet, I think there's every indication that Ginny's thoughts
at the time were, "yeah right, that's what you think."  Hermione is
constantly ordering Harry and Ron around.  She uses Cormac McLaggan to
make Ron jealous, manipulating both guys.  In OotP, we saw how Lily
stood up to two boys (three if you count Snape) her age and completely
told them off (which has *nothing* to do with motherly strength). 
Narcissa defies the Dark Lord's wishes in order to protect her son. 
The group that picks up Harry in OotP is about half female (Tonks,
Hestia Jones, and Emmeline Vance).  To my knowledge, the only person
we've heard about that was dangerous enough to Voldemort to be killed
personally (excluding the Potters) was a woman, Dorcas Meadows.  Look
all you want at career choices and such of the women in the WW, but
it's their interactions with men that are important.  And as Ceriden
said, the women are quite tough, particularly in regards to facing
their men.

Also, Irene made a lot of really good points, so I snipped most of
what she replied to, but in looking at individual female characters,
I'd argue that we have to also look at the men to get a fair
comparison.  McGonagall is shown as firm but fair; Snape is biased and
snarky.  Bellatrix Lestrange is pretty pathetic is her devotion to LV,
but is that any different from Peter Pettigrew's eager role as lapdog
to James and later to LV?  Even Filch is pretty pathetic is his
devotion to (er...obsession with?) his female cat.  Luna Lovegood is
just as brave as Neville Longbottom.  Hermione is far more
conscientious than Ron or Harry.  She has her say more often than not,
which is impressive when you consider the fact that her voice is
outnumbered 2:1.


Christina