Snape, Hagrid and Animals (LONGish)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 143764

va32h  wrote:
> > Applying real-life standards of safety to the magical world is 
always 
> > going to be frustrating. For me, it really reduces my enjoyment 
of the 
> > story to sidetrack myself with all the reasons this or that 
couldn't 
> > or shouldn't really happen. (I strictly speaking of my own 
experience 
> > here, to each his own). 

Alla:

Are you speaking strictly about standards of safety or about 
comparing magical world and RL in general? Because I view morals and 
ethics of Potterverse as reflection of RL and could not imagine 
thinking of them otherwise, BUT of course existence of magic makes 
safety standards a bit different, I suppose.


Leslie:
> Yah, I agree with that.  But if people are going to start piling 
on Snape for being a bad teacher, or mean, or whatever, there's 
plenty worse to pick on with Hagrid.  Snape is an EFFECTIVE 
teacher.  And his teaching does not imperil the very lives of his 
students.  Hagrid is both ineffective and dangerous.

Alla:

See my opinion on Hagrid below, BUT if Snape's effectiveness comes 
with the price of one student fearing him more than anything else in 
the world and another student feeling that he was imprisoning 
himself when he goes to one on one lessons with this teacher, I 
would take less effective teacher than Snape anytime. IMO only of 
course.



Leslie:
> I think Rowling once was asked about Snape, and Snape's retention 
at Hogwarts despite his seeming cruelty.  She said something 
like "there are teachers out there like Snape, and that's a lesson 
for Harry."

Alla:

Could you please point me to the quote where she said that? because 
I believe that she said something close but VERY different. I could 
be wrong of course.






Irene:

<SNIP>
> Even if they'd all listened to the last word of the instructions,
> there is no way Hagrid could supervise this lesson to some 
standard of
> safety.

Alla:

And still nobody else gets hurt, NOBODY but Malfoy, who we know did 
not listened and most likely plotted to disrupt the lesson.


Again, not saying that Hagrid is extremely good teacher, of course 
not, but I don't believe that he is horrible either. 


Irene:
> Bringing it back to Snape, if we use the same standard, it must be 
all
> Neville's fault, right? Because Snape's instructions are perfectly
> clear, and Hermione can brew perfect potions from them, so why 
can't
> Neville?

Alla:

Neville reads and listens to the instructions, he just struggles 
with them, if he routinely did not read and did not listen, and that 
would be a different story to me. But I would be surprised if 
Neville did not struggle with them, if his thoughts are probably 
concentrated on whether Trevor will live or die. JMO, of course.

Irene:
> Oh, and when Harry deliberately disrupts a lesson, Snape would not 
be
> at fault at all if some children were seriously hurt as a result?

Alla:

Erm.... Yes. If Harry would get hurt after he deliberately disrupted 
Snape's lesson, it would be his fault, IMO.


> Irene:
> 
> It's lucky that Snape's a "sadistic git" then, not another 
teacher "with a 
> heart of gold", like Hagrid. I'm not sure Hogwarts could take two.

Alla:

Well, putting irony aside, yep, I believe that is exactly it. :-)

Again, I believe, that JKR often emphasizes that all characters have 
something in them who they ARE and getting their rewards or 
punishments for that, IMO.

Hagrid indeed HAS a "heart of gold" IMO, you know nice guy and all 
that, despite NOT being a very good teacher and that is why I feel 
pretty safe betting that Hagrid will get a reward for that - either 
surviving the war and keeping his position in Hogwarts, or if Harry 
dies, maybe dying a Hero death and living a nice afterlife.

Hagrid NEVER to the best of my recollection shows the desire to harm 
ANYBODY, and I think it is very telling that the one who gets hurt 
during the lesson is Malfoy, who to my mind was needed a dose of 
karmic punishment especially for CoS and badly. And he gets it. 
Should Hagrid made sure that all kids heard his instructions? Yes, I 
suppose he should have done so, but again it is very telling to me 
that the one who gets hurt was plotting to disrupt the lessons, if 
narrator is correct of course (And I don't believe that Neville EVER 
plotted to disrupt Snape lesson).


Oh, and Hagrid gets punished for that lesson, he gets to suffer 
awaiting that beloved animal will die, almost all year long.



> 
> Sherry now:
> 
> If I had to pick, I'd take Hagrid over a sadist like Snape any day 
of the
> year.  


Alla:

Well, I partially agree. :-) I take a Hagrid over Snape in a 
heartbeat as a loyal protector for my child; I would take Hagrid 
over Snape as a friend for my child. I would take  Hagrid over Snape 
as one on one tutor for my child, I am not sure if I will be very 
comfortable leaving my child in the group setting leaded by Hagrid.

But again, this is IMO the key, I believe that JKR has much higher 
opinion of Hagrid's character as a "person" than she has of Snape's  
and that is why she will let him get away with his fallings as a 
teacher.


Just my opinion of course,

Alla