Snape is Good, Dumbledore Knew

[jondudley28]

No: HPFGUIDX 143828

This is my first post too. It's a bit long and full of quotes, 
I'm afraid, but I have put a conclusion at the end to make up 
for it. 

"another_potter_fan" wrote (#134756):
<snip>
> Anyway, here's my theory: DD knew someone was trying to kill 
> him.  DD knew he could only trust Snape, so he allowed Snape 
> to use the AK curse, but WITHOUT the intent to kill DD (again, 
> you have to mean it). <snip>

Annemflynn <annemflynn at y...> wrote (#137425):
> I too think DD faked his own death. The first potion Harry 
> made successfully with the assistance of the HBP was Draught 
> of the Living Dead, which is, I believe, what DD drank in the 
> cave. Snape looked at DD for a split second on the tower 
> before doing the AV curse. <snip> If DD didn't hide his 
> thoughts at that moment, he could have conveyed to Snape that
> he drank the Draught of the Living Dead. Snape, <snip> would 
> have known how to react to that. JKR spent a lot of time on
> silent spells in this book. I think that's the loophole. If he 
> didn't mean the AV curse and did a silent spell at the 
> same...<snip> <<

Jon:
I disagree with idea that Dumbledore faked his death as a clever 
ruse as "another_potter_fan" and "annemflynn" put forward.

The first point is that Dumbledore fell from the ramparts and 
this broke his body "Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the 
strange angle of his arms and legs, he might have been sleeping. 
Harry reached out...wiped a trickle of blood from the mouth with 
his own sleeve." (Half Blood Prince; UK edition; Chap 27 The 
Lightning Struck Tower pp. 568). The blood suggests internal 
injuries that would have caused death if the killing curse did 
not.

Secondly Snape really did seem to have the feelings and will to 
kill Dumbledore "Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there 
was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face" 
(Half Blood Prince; UK edition; Chap 28 The Flight of the Prince 
pp. 556) It is possible that Snape could have been acting, but 
that would mean that he had broken the conditions of the 
Unbreakable Vow and would himself die.

I also believe Snape is on the side of good, and Dumbledore knew 
that Snape had made the Unbreakable Vow. If we then read matt, 
pastafor5 and kels posts' again: (sorry, bear with me!)

Matt hpfanmatt wrote (#133609): 
> <SNIP> I am becoming more and more convinced, although it was 
> not my first reading, that DD intended all along for Snape to 
> deliver the coup de grace. Why else is he calling for Harry to 
> get Snape, both in Hogsmeade and up on the tower? Snape is not 
> the resident Healer; he is not even the potions master at this 
> point. I think DD knows that his moment has come, and that by 
> putting him out of his misery Snape can cement his position 
> with LV and the Death Eaters -- and save Draco from his 
> predicament. <SNIP>

Pastafor5 pastafor5 at ... wrote (#133018): 
> The one key moment that makes me think (sadly) that Snape did 
> this out of loyalty to Voldemort rather than Dumbledore is 
> when Draco tells Dumbledore that Snape made the Unbreakable 
> Vow to his mother. Dumbledore says it isn't true and that 
> Snape just made that up to get information from him. But we 
> know that it was actually true. If Dumbledore didn't know 
> that, then it appears Snape must have been loyal to Voldemort 
> instead. Anyone see any loopholes? I hope so - it breaks my 
> heart to think that Snape could do that to Dumbledore. << 

Kel kellybroughton at ... wrote (#134317): 
> Actually, you will be glad to know that I *did* think of a 
> loophole. Hard as it may be to believe at first, DD lied when 
> he made that reply. He couldn't let Draco (or any other 
> present DEs) know that DD was aware all year long that Draco 
> was up to something. Because the only person who would have 
> informed DD of the plan is Snape. And if it's discovered (by 
> the bad side) that Snape babbled.... <<

Jon:
And this passage from the book

"
said Harry forcefully. `What's Snape done?'
	`I dunno, Harry, I shouldn't have heard it at all! I – 
well, I was comin' outta the Forest the other evenin' an' I 
overheard `em talking – well, arguin'. Didn't like ter draw 
attention to meself, so I sorta skulked an' tried not ter listen, 
but it was a – well, a heated discussion, an' it wasn't easy ter 
block it out.'
	`Well?' Harry urged him, as Hagrid shuffled his enormous 
feet uneasily.
	`Well – I jus' hears Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too 
much for granted an' maybe he – Snape – didn't wan' to do it any 
more - '

 	
`anyway, Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed to do 
it an' that was all there was to it. Pretty firm with him.' " 
(Half Blood Prince; UK edition; Chap 19 Elf Tails pp. 380)

I agree with "Matt" and "Kel". I think the quote proves Dumbledore
knew that Snape had made the Unbreakable Vow, and understood that
Snape had no choice but to kill him. That was why Dumbledore was
giving special lessons to Harry throughout the year. He could have
begun in an earlier school year, but he chose this one because he 
knew he would die. He was helping Harry to learn LV weaknesses 
("know thy enemy"): both magical and psychological, so he could 
defeat him. I think Dumbledore knows he is too old to defeat LV 
(remember his injured hand) and so passed on his skills and 
knowledge to the next generation who will have a better chance 
(Harry, Ron and Hermione). 

I think the quote also proves the Snape is on the good side. He 
was having second thoughts about killing Dumbledore, because he 
probably believed Dumbledore was more valuable. However, I think 
Dumbledore thought Snape could be useful to Harry as an anonymous 
source of information on LV. 

Borrowing Karen's quote from the first post (#132908):
> Chpt 28 The Flight of the Prince p 564 (UK ed)
> "`DON'T -` screamed Snape, and his face was suddenly demented,
> inhuman, as though he was in as much pain as the yelping, 
> howling dog stuck in the burning house behind them, `- CALL ME
> A COWARD'" <<

Jon:
I think Snape is angry because he not a coward. He has just 
done something incredibly brave: killed Dumbledore, his greatest 
friend and ally, because he asked him to. 

I also agree with Luna:
Luna wrote (#134839):
> Didn't Jo explained why she had to kill DD in her last
> Interview with Emerson? Isn't it the point that Harry has 
> to go for it by himself? She sounded very much sure of DD 
> being dead... << 

Jon:
Harry has to come into his own, and he can't do this with 
Dumbledore alive. As a result, JKR made a decision to kill him. 

In Conclusion:
1) Dumbledore is dead because 
a)	the fall would have killed him, if not Avada Kedavra 
b)	Snape appears to have had the hatred and force of will 
to do it
2) Dumbledore knew Snape would kill him because
	a) of the argument with Snape
	b) he prepared Harry, Ron and Hermione to defeat LV by 
giving them his weaknesses
Therefore he lied to Draco when he told him he didn't know about 
the unbreakable vow.  
3) Snape Is Good because
	a) he argued with Dumbledore because he did not want to 
kill him. 
	b) his anger at Harry is because of his own pain and guilt 
at having to kill Dumbledore.
4) Harry has to come into his own, and he can't do this with
Dumbledore alive. As a result, JKR made a decision to kill him.

Jon