Destroying the horcruxes (The cave potion and soul pieces )

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 141189

Valky:
> Oh :( I really hate to do this to you Jen, but, it didn't happen
> that way. 
> '...Harry noticed a ring on his uninjured hand <snip> and was set
> with a heavy black stone that had cracked down the middle.' Page
> 68, Bloomsbury HBP, Chapter 4, Horace Slughorn.
> 
> The destruction of the Ring and the terrible curse on it do appear
> to be linkable, yet. 

Jen: Oh, dear. I made mistakes left and right yesterday, must be 
time for a re-read! Thank you for pointing that out Valky, so I 
won't continue along the line of false reasoning. :)

Valky: 
> Now I agree that Harry destroyed the diary, in the sense of the
> precise act of destroying it, rather effortlessly. But I wonder if
> it was helped along by the fact that Harry used Voldemorts own 
> weapon (Basilisk tooth) to do it. This could be the thing that
> Dumbledore overlooked, and if so it would then translate sensibly
> that if he died bearing a Horcrux himself, it would be necessary
> that he died of Voldemorts potion and nothing else in order to
> secure the victory aginst the Ring Horcrux. This doesn't very well
> explain why it had to be Harry's hand that destroyed it in the
> end. 

Deb:
> The ring was also probably protected by Slytherin - perhaps to
> kill the hand of who ever was not related to him who dared to put
> the ring on - or perhaps even touch it. While LV may have added a
> curse or two of his own, we can't assume it was without magical
> power when he acquired it. 

Jen: Putting your two comments together really makes me think Harry 
is naturally suited to destroying Horcruxes because of the power 
transfer from the last heir of Slytherin. In fact, we know so little 
about the event causing this--by transferring a 'bit of himself' to 
Harry, did Voldemort unintentionally link Harry to Slytherin's line? 
That would certainly mark Harry as his equal! 

I really like your idea, Deb, that Slytherin himself or someone down 
the line protected the ring to be worn only by Slytherin's 
bloodline. The locket would not appear to have the same protection 
since many people have been able to touch it--but has anyone else 
actually tried to wear it? Hepzibah kept it in the box, and we don't 
know if people tried it on at Borgin & Burkes.

Back to Harry, since all the objects contain part of the soul of 
Slytherin's heir, I'd say even the objects that aren't Slytherin's 
will be easier for Harry to destroy than for anyone else. Voldemort 
handing him weapons again. Well, in fact we know this, because the 
diary wasn't a special object, merely imbued with the memory of the 
last heir.

Valky:
> From separate directions we are all drawing a similar conclusion
> that Dumbledore chose death rather than become one of Voldemorts
> weapons. I, like Jen, really lean strongly toward possession, LV's
> rank favourite weapon, IMO. <snipping> Fortunately there are three
> main ones, the Ring protections, the Ring itself and the Potion in
> the cave, I am sure we agree its one of those three, but which
> exactly we may not be able to know until book seven.

Deb:
> I think that for DD and the OOP becoming an Inferi or some other
> abomination under LV's control would come under the banner of "a 
> fate worse than death"... DD to LV (paraphrase) "we both know
> there are ways to destroy a man without killing him"

Jen: This is a tangent, but will come back around to the above 
comments. JKR has definitely trounced the idea Harry is a Gryffindor 
heir. But I don't think her interview statement ruled out 
Dumbledore. We're due an explanation of why Lily and James were 
protected at Godric's Hollow, how Dumbledore came to own Fawkes and 
the 'importance of Dumbledore's family' mentioned by JKR. I think 
they all have the same answer, and Dumbledore and Aberforth are the 
last heirs of Gryffindor.(As a total aside I expect Aberforth will 
have to go in Book 7 for this reason, so all the remaining heirs of 
the feuding founders will be laid to rest.)

As Gryffindor's heir, I think DD would be uniquely *unqualified* to 
deal with finding and destroying the Horcruxes, especially those of 
Slytherin. As such, I wonder if that's why the very powerful 
Dumbledore was struggling so much against the protections and the 
ring itself, and why he became so powerless in the cave after the 
potion. The curses and deadly potions and all the rest were probably 
enough in themselves, yet...there's still a question in my mind. 
That his wand hand could be destroyed was really significant, and 
how he reacted to the potion was another. Perhaps even Regulus found 
it easier than Dumbledore. And I don't think the knowledge he would 
have a harder time would stop Dumbledore from trying. He certainly 
planned to do all he could to save Harry from dealing with the 
horcruxes alone, a fact we see through all his research and the 
attempt to detroy the ring on his own.

Deb:
> Though DD does try to get past the block [potion] using every
> means of magic he can think of before drinking it. And I suspect
> he had at least some idea of what it might do to him.... DD was 
> after all 150 years old and steeped in knowledge of many aspects
> of magic. While he was not a potions master ala Snape.. he must
> have gained a fairly broad understanding of potions and their
> effects over his life time.

Jen: Plus he may have taken a preventative antidote for just such an 
occasion. At the very least he knew the potion wouldn't kill him, 
and if he did take a preventative, he expected it would last him 
until he could get back to Hogwarts. I don't think he counted on the 
water, though. 

Deb: 
> DD also tells Draco "Well, I certainly did have a drink... and I
> came back...after a fashion," mumbled Dumbledore. (p. 590) Wonder
> if DD only meant he came back to Hogwarts... or did he mean he
> came back from the dead?

Jen: Or came back in an altered form, as we all mentioned on this 
thread? My other reading is Dumbledore is just making a little 
private joke. After all, he can still use manners while he's dying 
so no need to lose that quirky sense of humour!

Valky:
> It becomes interesting when we consider that the previous intruder
> R.A.B. must also have drunk some of, or all of, that potion too.
> What traces of that person were left behind in the cave, we re 
> aware via Dumbledore that there is definitely a recording of RAB's
> intentions somewhere in the cave, is the potion our only option or
> is there somewhere else that it might be recorded? Did RAB drink 
> the water?

Jen: So you think whatever information Voldemort gleaned from the 
potion-drinker would stay in the cave? The only thing blocking me on 
this idea is how Dumbledore seems to see only Voldemort's traces in 
the cave. You're saying he saw traces of R.A.B. as well? Oh, maybe 
you're just saying they *should* be in the cave somewhere because 
R.A.B. was also a magical person. If DD saw traces of someone else 
though, he might start to expect the horcrux was tampered with or at 
least express this oddity to Harry since the cave should only be 
known to Voldemort.

Jen