Trial of Severus Snape - UV

[zgirnius]

No: HPFGUIDX 141527

> Julie wrote:
> Still, it's odd to me that Snape stopped Narcissa "at once." As  if
> he didn't want her to say it out loud. If he didn't know what it 
was  all
> about, it seems Bella being furious at her sister--or at him--
would  be
> a small price to find out what Voldemort is up to. 

zgirnius:
Yes, but if Snape hadn't stepped in it is likely that Bella would 
have. (By shouting, threatening to tell the Dark Lord all, 
whetever...) She thinks this is very important, after all. By 
preempting Bella and stopping Narcissa himself, he ingratiates 
himself some with Bella. By then claiming he already knows the 
secret, (after a show of caution Bella ought to appreciate) he then 
takes away Bella's grounds for interfering further in the 
conversation. 

Julie wrote:
> After all, if he is making this up, and Bella tells Voldemort  that
> Snape claimed to know the plan, what is Voldemort going to think 
> of Snape, lying about how much he knows? It won't do much for  
> Snape's trustworthiness in Voldemort's eyes. 

zgirnius:
Sure, Snape might have been told. Even if it is a top secret plan, it 
will be going down at Hogwarts, where Snape is V's "agent in place", 
so he might be considered to "need to know". I don't think so myself. 
Peter's presence suggests to me Snape is not especially trusted. And 
I think Snape's presence at Hogwarts will be less valuable to V if DD 
dies, so V might not feel a need to warn Snape. Finally (as I argue 
above) I found all Snape's actions consistent with a bluff.

I agree it might look dodgy if Bella told V Snape claimed to know the 
plan. But then DEs are probably always lying to each other about how 
important they are, this could be seen as a similar maneuver. Also, 
as the chapter actually ends, I don't think Bella will be discussing 
the meeting with V. at all. Her acting as Bonder for that Vow makes 
her complicit...and the Vow may have convinced her some of Snape's 
loyalties (her astonishment as he takes the Vow suggests this).

> julie wrote:
> This makes culpability more difficult to assign, I think. Snape
> went in expecting to cement his relationship with Narcissa, via
> protection of her son. And Dumbledore was aware of Snape's intent,
> perhaps hoping the final result would be bringing the Malfoys  over
> to the Good side. But it went awry when Narcissa tacked on that
> third provision. 

zgirnius:
I would argue that Snape's culpability is equally lessened if his 
motive in taking the Vow (clauses 1 and 2 especially) was to gain 
valuable intelligence for the Order. Even if there was no preexisting 
plan made with Dumbledore. To be effective as a spy among the DEs 
Snape has got to be able to use some initative. Provision 3, no 
matter which of us is reading things right, is of course where things 
get sticky...

> Disneymom wrote:
> I can't see how Snape doesn't know what Draco is planning to do. 
> Being a Legilimens he must be able to *see* what Narcissa wants
> without her actually saying anything. This way she doesn't do
> anything wrong where Voldi & Bella are concerned. She doesn't say
> anything. He knows what he is getting into before agreeing to the 
> UV. He lets Dumbledore know what to expect and gets the DADA
> job because one way or another he will not be back next year.

zgirnius:
I agree that if Narcissa wanted to communicate the plan to Snape via 
Legilimency, she would have had ample opportunity. (Assuming she is 
aware he is a Legilimens.) And it would be a clever way to circumvent 
Bella! However, I think Snape telling her he knows the plan might 
cause her to not think of this. Now, if she were thinking about the 
plan at any of the moments we read Snape is gazing into her eyes 
(even if this was not intentional), then also Snape would have to 
know. I am sure he was trying Legilimency on Cissy. However, Cissy 
was in quite the emotional state. It is possible that her "top of 
mind" thoughts and feelings were all about her fears for Draco and 
thus not of any use to Snape.

But assuming you are right...why would he take the UV?