Harry's emotions his strength or his weakness? ( LONG)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 141570

Valky:

<BIG SNIP>

> Many of us are saying that Harry probably won't take Snapes advice 
to
> play smart and be careful. But I, on the contrary think, it is
> foreshadowed that he will. 
> 
> Many of us think he won't win without it, and I, on the contrary,
> think that it's foreshadowed that his trying to hide his thoughts 
and
> keep his mouth shut will be what leads him to the most danger. And 
it
> will be Friendship, Bravery and Love that makes it possible for 
him to
> win the battle.
> 
> Okay, everyone - launch the rotten tomatoes. :D
> 
> Valky
>

Alla:

Oh, that was brilliant, Valky. I mentioned Hermione's advice 
upthread in passing, but it was such cool comparison with Snape's 
advice.

It is a great idea that Harry may indeed think that he needs to shut 
his mouth and close his thoughts, but that is what will lead him 
into danger. I am not sure I agree with it, I simply think that 
Harry won't have time to learn how to close his mind in book 7 and 
that if needed book 6 was  a perfect opportunity for it, but as long 
as it produces no positive results and Harry goes back to his true 
nature, I love it too.

Your post made me even more convinced that the only USEFUL lesson 
that Harry will take  from Snape is NOT to become him.

Just out of curiousity, do you think Harry will try to figure out 
how to close his mind without Occlumency? It just seems to me that 
both JKR and Dumbledore dismissed it  pretty much forever. JMO, of 
course.


> Jen: 

I'm not sure JKR is saying feelings matter more than anything 
> else in Potterverse. She mentioned being a little reserved 
herself, 
> and her author alter-ego Dumbledore is remarkably reserved as well 
> (with good reason, I think, but still presented as emotionally 
> contained).

Alla:

I am, quite sure that is. :-) Again, not saying that intellect is 
nothing in Potterverse, but as Valky said, friendship loyalty and 
bravery is what matters most, IMO.

Yes, Dumbledore is reserved, that is true, but don't you think that 
this leads him to one of his mistakes,as he himself is saying:

"Youth cannot know how age thinks or feels. But old men are guilty 
if they forget what it was to be young... and I seem to have 
forgotten lately" - OOP, p.826, paperback.

I read this admission as Dumbledore forgetting how young people feel 
and this is what lead him to make mistakes in his dealings with 
Harry and Sirius.

Dumbledore is 150 years old, so of course he cannot be as open with 
his emotions as Harry is, because he had been through a lot, saw a 
lot, etc, but I think at the end of OOP Dumbledore is expressing 
regret among other things that he was out of touch with how his 
people feel.

Oh, and at the same time he thinks that his mistake was caring about 
Harry too much, but I speculate that he is wrong here, because 
supposedly that fact ( Dumbledore caring about Harry too much - I 
have problems accepting it wholeleartedly in the light of "I knew 
you would suffer" speech, but I think that is what JKR trying to 
convey to us - that DD does love Harry)  and Harry realising it lead 
to Harry proclaiming himself "Dumbledore man" and picking up the 
torch.


Jen: 
> Dumbledore approved of Harry moving on from Sirius' death and not 
> continuing to agonzie over it, he praised him instead for being 
like 
> his parents and Sirius. 

Alla:

Well, I suspect that is JKR wanting to do the transition from OOP to 
HBP ASAP.


Jen:
Then when Harry finds out about Snape-as-
> Eavesdropper and attempted to master his strong emtotions so he 
> could go on the cave expedition, Dumbledore didn't try to 
intervene 
> and tell him to let it all hang out. ;) Dumbledore doesn't *tell* 
> Harry to control his feelings, but rewards him when he's able to 
do 
> so. A different approach from Snape, lol.

Alla:

I am SO not sure that JKR approves Dumbledore handling of the 
situation here. I again think that those were more for plot related 
reasons, because I saw absolutely no sense in Dumbledore shutting 
Harry out, when he just learned that Snape had a hand in letting his 
parents be dead, IMO.




> Jen:
 And Harry wasn't out of control with his emotions when he felt 
> love and painful loss for Sirius; the heartfelt feeling which 
> expelled Voldemort was a very specific, momentary feeling, not an 
on-
> going, rampant feeling like the hatred Harry feels for Snape. 

Alla:

I think we are arguing semantics here. I am not saying that emotions 
should be out of control, I am just saying that shutting them down  -
 BOTH positive  and negative could bring more danger than usefulness.

I think you argued once that in Potterverse  the innerself of the 
person is often personified by very concrete things - boggart, 
patronus. I think Harry controling his emotions, sort of - will 
shape into channeling  them ( and I mean his hatred first and 
foremost, because I don't think that he needs to do anything with 
that Love of his) into something more positive  and concrete than 
Unforgivables. Maybe something that will personify Love. You know, 
doing magic of love with negative emotions or something like that. 
Just speculating here of course.


Jen:
<SNIP>
> Dumbledore told Harry his heart saved him from Voldemort's 
> possession, yet he offered Harry a slightly different explanation 
> for why Occlumency wasn't necessary in HBP (besides Harry not 
being 
> skilled at it). He told Harry: "Lord Voldemort has finally 
realized 
> the dangerous access to his thoughts and feelings you have been 
> enjoying." (chap. 4). That's a very rational explanation, not an 
> emotional one. 

Alla:

Jen, I don't think that this is  the explanation for why Harry does 
not need to study Occlumency. This is an explanation of why Harry's 
scar is not hurting, that is it. I mean, it is sort of the same, but 
IMO not really, because nowhere in that quote Dumbledore is saying 
that "this is why you don't have to study Occlumency"

"So tell me, Harry," said Dumbledore. "Your scar... has it been 
hurting at all?"
It is too long to type ,so I will just summarise . Harry says no and 
he thought that this would be burning all the time , but Dumbledore 
says that this is because Voldemort is now employing Occlumency 
against Harry  - HBP, p.59 for exact quote.

I think that "your heart saved you" is a very significant statement, 
which will somehow play a big role at the end.

And I am not sure as to whether Dumbledore gives much rational 
explanation as to why Occlumency lessons are not needed,w hen he 
directly talks to Harry about these lessons.

"If I am having lessons with you, I won't have to Occlumency lessons 
with Snape, will I?"
"Professor Snape, Harry - and no, you will not."

"Good," said Harry in relief, " because they were a ----"
He stopped, careful not to say what he really thought.

" I think the word "fiasco" would  be a good one here," said 
Dumbledore nodding. - HBP, p.79.

I don't know, I think for Dumbledore that was a big display of 
emotion. :)


JMO,

Alla