Harry's emotions his strength or his weakness? / WILL and WON'T (LONG)

[dumbledore11214]

No: HPFGUIDX 141628

> Jen: 
Oh Alla, I would love to feel your certainty about *something* 
> in Potterverse. My only rock-solid prediction for Book 7 is 
> Voldemort will finally, and for all time, be vanquished ;).

Alla:

Snort. Well, I do agree with this one, definitely. :-) As to others, 
I am sure I will make my recipe for nice tasty crow even better by  
the time book 7 comes out, in case me being sure will not play out 
as I am thinking it will . :-)

Seriously though, I am not sure of course as to how it will  play 
out plot wise in details, BUT I am sure in the general principla - 
that Harry's heart and his friends love for him will play key role 
in  defeating Voldemort, NOT Harry's learning how to close his mind. 
Control his emotions? Maybe. But not giving them up and I want to 
stress here - BOTH  negative and positive. Just me of course.


Jen: 
> Cause see, you're swaying me here. Maybe in the case above and the 
> case where Dumbledore is dismissive with Harry about Snape-as-
> eavesdropper, maybe both were examples of him forgetting the 
fiery, 
> idealistic passion of youth, and how important things are in the 
> moment. Hell, sometimes I forget and I'm only 38.


Alla:

Heee. Thanks! Sometimes I feel being swayed by the argument when I 
am reading it and then when I am thinking about it next day, I am 
going back to my old POV again. :-0

 
> Jen: 
I know you don't think much about that speech in OOTP, but I've 
> always loved it and never believed Dumbledore made a mistake. 
Since 
> we know Harry's power saves him from temptation by Voldemort 
(among 
> other things), I'd say Dumbledore's power was the same. A lesser 
man 
> would have given into temptation to mold Harry into a super-
wizard, 
> the only kind of person you might think could defeat Voldemort 
after 
> hearing the prophecy, and that plan would have failed miserably. 


Alla:

LOL! Not liking it is an understatement. :-) Mainly because what 
unpleasant light (IMO) it casts on Albus. I don't always agree with 
Lupinlore when he is arguing  that JKR swept under the rug many plot 
lines of OOP, but I think he is right on about this speech of 
Dumbledore. I think JKR backed of with Dumbledore's speech in HBP, 
because to me the main point Dumbledore seemed to make in OOP as to 
Harry's situation at Dursleys was " I knew you would suffer" and the 
main point of his speech at Dursleys in HBP was " I trusted you to 
raise him like a son, but you never treated him like son" ( 
paraphrase). Those two points seem to be contradictory to me, BUT I 
am actually HAPPY that JKR backed off, because I DO like Dumbledore, 
I do NOT think that he is a Puppetmaster, but I think that his 
speech in OOP seemed to give that impression and I do not think that 
this was her intent at all. So, I much rather have Dumbledore who 
was hoping that Dursleys treat Harry as family member than the one 
who KNEW that they would not and left Harry with them anyway. As I 
said, to me JKR redeemed Albus (sort of) with his HBP speech.
Right, I should stop now, because I could go on and on. :-)


I am not quite sure though that I understand  the context of you 
talking about Dumbledore resisting his temptation. Are you saying 
that Dumbledore was tempted to put Harry with Dursleys or not to put 
Harry with Dursleys , but did it anyway and this was a good thing?

Or are you talking about Dumbledore's temptation outside of Dursleys 
context?


> Jen:
 I misunderstood here, thought you meant Harry shouldn't try to 
> control his feelings somewhat. We both agree he needs to get a 
> handle on his hatred, that it could interfere with what he needs 
to 
> focus on. But NOT through Occlumency. I hope change will come for 
> him through emotional healing, brought about by the visit to 
> Godric's or memories of Lily.

Alla:

Sorry, I think I was confusing here. So, going back to starting 
point in this thread ( I think). I think I was arguing that IF Snape 
wants to teach Harry something ( which I doubt), that would be not 
the subtly nuanced idea of controlling one's emotions ( which could 
be a good idea to a degree), but repressing one's emotions, which I 
think would be a VERY bad idea for Harry, because we know that in 
large part at least his powers ARE based on emotions. I am glad we 
agree about Occlumency though.



> Jen: 
Actually, true confession time. One of the few things I 
> predicted right for HBP was Harry wouldn't need Occlumency lessons 
> because his heart saved him :). That the reason Dumbledore talked 
> openly with Harry in the study afterward was because he had no 
fear 
> Voldemort would try to invade Harry anymore, even using the mind 
> link, given the power residing in Harry (well that part wasn't 
> exactly right). 

Alla:

I did not predict that Harry will not need Occlumency. I was going 
back and forth on it, but I was pretty sure that contrary to 
numerous fanfic stories Harry will not be studying it with Snape.

One of my correct predictions ( maybe even the only one) was Snape 
being the eavesdropper. 


Jen: 
> Then HBP confused me! Was it emotion that saved Harry or his 
*soul*? 
<snip>

Alla:

I think it is all connected somehow - his ability to Love, his Soul 
and his heart


Jen:
>Some days I think I have a handle on 
> these things and other days not.
> 
Alla:

LOL! Aren't we all?


Sherry Gomes:

> I've finally started rereading HBP.  i needed to give it time to 
process I
> guess, though I've usually reread all the other books right away.  
i just
> wanted to say how much I enjoyed the third chapter!  <SNIP>Harry's 
thought
> that experience had taught him to stay out of the reach of uncle 
Vernon made
> me think he had indeed suffered more than neglect, and I reveled in
> Dumbledore telling them off in his own unique way.  <SNIP> 


Alla:

Yes, I have started my second reread too. I loved everything you 
said in this chapter, but what I enjoyed the most was  the fact that 
JKR ( IMO of course ) unequivocally stated that Harry WAS mistreated 
at Dursleys, that he DID suffer neglect and cruelty, that he WAS 
miserable there.

To make a long story short - I am glad that JKR did not try to 
justify Dursleys behaviour and it was a GREAT payback time, IMO.

I said it previously - I would prefer no redemption for Dursleys at 
all, but after this chapter maybe I will be able to swallow Petunia 
realising that Harry IS her nephew after all, if JKR decides to 
travel that route.


Sherry:
> Anyway, I just wanted to write about something that was not 
related to did
> or didn't Snape do something or other!

Alla:

LOLOL!