Re: Dumbledore's "“peaceful expression”? (was: Dumbledore's pleading)

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 141747


> > Valky:
> > I think the Peaceful
> > expression must come directly from the description of the  
> > portrait.
> 
> Neri:
> Thanks Valky, now I see it. It's Dumbledore's new *portrait* that is
> described as "looking peaceful and untroubled".
> 
> But I don't think this is where the words "peaceful expression" came
> from. In fact, it's very easy to trace exactly where they came from.
> Just type "peaceful expression" in the search box <snip> You might 
> find this entertaining as I did <g>. 

Valky:
You're welcome Neri, *snort!* LOL, the peaceful expression wound its
tentacles round us so incedentally. Say no more <g>

 
> Neri:
> Regarding the post humus bleeding, I'm not a pathologist, and 
> neither is JKR, but it sounds logical to me that if a person had a 
> nasty poison in his stomach for many minutes then an internal 
> bleeding might occur. If this person is then thrown from the top of 
> a tower and lands on his back, it seems reasonable the blow would 
> make a bit of this blood trickle out of his mouth, even if his heart 
> stopped three or four seconds before that.

Valky:
You know, I do agree with that. My only difficulty is levelling the
weigh between these logical but not essentially canonical assumptions,
and the thought that the books describe in detail the precise effect
of instantaneous death without embellishment in five clear cut scenes,
one almost entirely looks to be shown for the sake of demonstrating
AK, just to then deviate dramatically from this established normal
without cause or intent.

 


> Neri:
> Regarding the "customary look of terror", being wary now of anything
> that isn't cited canon I went looking and found Cedric's expression 
> is "slightly surprised". It's only the Riddles who have "a look of
> terror" on their face. 

Valky:
Yes, as I said I find it ambiguous, a frozen expression IMO seems to
be the canon correct model. And that expression does not necessarily
need to reflect a single emotion, I believe it would vary according to
the victims emotions at the time of death. Dumbledore, as Nora pointed
out, is one character we can definitely deem capable of having an
expression bearing the marks of acceptance. And even closed eyes, but
I wouldn't be positive that he would close them to someone he knew was
betraying him.

> Neri:
> Another interesting inconsistency I found is that in the Frank Brice
> case and in the spider case there's a "rushing sound" after the 
> green light, which in the spider case is further described "as 
> though a vast, invisible something was soaring through the air". 
> This quite distinct sound is *not* described in Cedric's case, nor 
> in the fox case, nor in any of the many AKs in the MoM, nor on the 
> tower. <snip> So did Cedric too die from something else? And what 
> about the fox? 

Valky:
The rushing sound, I have to admit is genuinely inconsistent in the
text. However both Cedric and the Fox fell frozen in the instant of
their deaths and this is widely established as the true Avada Kedavra
by characters we just cannot doubt would cast it with indifference.
Therefore I say that the fox and Cedric definitively *died* of Avada
Kedavra, but Dumbledore did not fall instantly dead and hence his
moment of death is positively questionable.


Neri:
> As a whole, if JKR meant for the AK symptoms to be a clue I'd say 
> she did a pretty lousy job describing them consistently throughout 
> the series.

Valky:
I OTOH believe Jo did an excellent job of sneaking consistency through
the veil of mysterious constrast. The consistency exists only in the
case of living beings, who are struck by an absolutely established
successful Avada Kedavra. And five cases in six books is not *really*
an insignificant pattern, is it.


> Neri
>
> If, however, she went for the most appropriate dramatic 
> effect in each specific context, I'd say she just about nailed it.
> 

Valky:
I won't refute that, even if I am right, I would still say JKR aimed
for this on at least one level. And if I am wrong, I will be happy to
have you and Alla and Co serve me up a feast of crow. <g>

Valky