CHAPDISC: HBP1, The Other Minister

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 141807

KathyK, on HBP Ch 1 The Other Minister:
> Does this scene work?  If so, what made it work here in contrast to 
> the other potential locations in the series?  Is it simply that 
> Fudge has more information to disseminate or are there thematic or 
> stylistic reasons to include this scene now?

Ceridwen:
I think the scene works.  I enjoyed seeing the interaction between 
the WW and MW representatives.

It worked here because now there's plenty of reason to show us this 
interaction.  There's a lot going on off-stage: 'hurricanes', a 
collapsed bridge that killed some Muggles, Dementors out of Azkaban 
and breeding, the deaths of Amelia Bones and Emmaline Vance.  We can 
be shown all of this, which would make the book a lot longer IMO; We 
can learn about the incidents as they're broadcast on the news 
through Harry's POV and then find out later that it's Dementors, 
Death Eaters and Werewolves; or we can get a quick run-down which 
would also show us that the MW is affected by Voldemort's activities, 
and the war is both heating up in the WW, and getting dangerous for 
Muggles, too.  I don't think it would have worked before the conflict 
spilled over into the Muggle World.
> 
> 2. The PM felt like an `ignorant schoolboy.' Is this truly how they 
> were treating him and if so, how does the condescension of the two 
> wizards relate to their ostensible leadership of opposition to the 
> Muggle-hating DEs?  Is this condescension symptomatic of their rise 
> to power or a deeper problem within the wizarding community apart 
> from LV & co.?

Ceridwen:
Yes, that's how they were treating him.  It's a condescention that I 
think is evident throughout the WW.  Not just Fudge and Scrimgeour, 
though as leaders they may have more condescention than most.  But, I 
do think it's symptomatic of a deeper problem/attitude.
> 
> 3.  The PM appreciates why a fearful wizarding public would prefer 
> Scrimgeour to Fudge.  What differences do we encounter between the 
> two?  Besides the lime green bowler hat


Ceridwen:
Scrimgeour comes in dynamically, does a bunch of magic (that probably 
wasn't necessary or he would have admonished Fudge for not having 
done so earlier).  He looks more capable with his resemblance to a 
lion, which is used as a guard (statues) at places like older 
libraries.  He gets right down to business instead of 'fudging' 
around.  He speaks directly instead of making waffling statements.
> 
> 4.  Fudge shows up and tells the PM a bunch of things that he is 
> powerless to do anything about.  Sirius Black's escape is the only 
> time Fudge requested any help from the PM.  There seems to be 
little 
> any non-wizard could do about it, and the action provoked criticism 
> of Fudge in PoA (Ch 3, The Knight Bus).  What is the point of 
> telling the Muggle Prime Minister anything about what is going on 
in 
> the WW?  Law? (What is the relationship between the WW government 
> and the Muggle government?)  Courtesy? Glaring Incompetence?

Ceridwen:
I'm sorry that telling the Muggle PM provoked criticism of Fudge.  I 
think it showed a willingness to get beyond the differences the WW 
sees between themselves and Muggles, and addresses an issue that 
could affect the MW.  Sirius Black was presumed to have killed 12 
Muggles, it was not only courtesy, but a duty, for Fudge to tell his 
counterpart.  It's the same thing done between governments in the RW, 
let your counterpart know about something that may or will affect 
their people.
> 
> 5.  Fudge says the dementors are breeding, which is causing the 
> gloomy weather throughout England.  We know prior to this the 
> dementors were guarding Azkaban and working with the Ministry, yet 
> there was no chilly mist covering the land until now.  Why weren't 
> they breeding before?  Ministry controls?  An agreement?

Ceridwen:
Maybe Ministry controls.  Allowing only limited breeding, perhaps?  
Or, it could be that they were too restricted on Azkaban to breed 
much beyond their population.  Or, they're like cougars, territorial, 
and to have offspring, they need to have a certain amount of space.  
Or, they did breed, but only in remote places near Azkaban (or on it, 
how would that be for affecting prisoners?), and the only reason it's 
noticeable now is because they're breeding closer to populated 
centers.
> 
> 6.  Is "Serious" Black now officially innocent?  

Ceridwen:
Apparently:  "Black?  Black?"  said Fudge distractedly, turning his 
bowler rapidly in his fingers.  "Sirius Black, you mean?  Merlin's 
beard, no.  Black's dead.  Turns out we were - er - mistaken about 
Black.  He was innocent after all... *(snip)* ...There's going to be 
an inquiry, actually..."
(HBP pg. 11 US)
> 
> 7.  Scrimgeour performs an overt display of magic merely to keep 
his 
> statement to the PM that Kingsley Shacklebolt, likely as not the 
> only person nearby anyhow, is a wizard from being overheard.  Then 
> he leaves.  Fudge, on the other hand takes no precautions 
whatsoever 
> and then blurts out intimate knowledge of the WW.  Is the 
> Shacklebolt information somehow more sensitive than everything 
Fudge 
> said?  Is Scrimgeour protecting this information from Muggles, 
Death 
> Eaters, or both?  Or are his attempts at keeping it private just 
> fodder for the GARBAGE SCOW (Gibberish, Altogether Redundant 
Blather 
> And Gobbledegook Everywhere! Superfluous Can(n)on Obtains 
Welcome)?  
> (http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/hypotheticalley.html#scow)

Ceridwen:
I think he's trying to impress the PM with his magic, as well as 
trying to appear different from Fudge.  Fudge, and presumably his 
predecessors, have come to talk to the Muggle PM for ages, did they 
all, except for Fudge, go through the rigamarole?  I think this is 
part of what impressed the PM about Scrimgeour, it's a part of his 
demeanor.
> 
> 8.  Who might have cast the poorly performed Imperius Curse?  What 
> makes the curse poorly performed?  Was it just sloppy magic, or 
> function similarly to the other Unforgivables in that you really 
> have to mean it for it to be successful?

Ceridwen:
I don't know who cast it.  Is there a DE in the Muggle government?  
Maybe Scrimgeour was right to be so cautious?  Either way, I think 
it's sloppy magic, just because Muggles aren't as important to 
Wizards, and especially not to DEs and others sympathetic to LV's 
cause.

Ceridwen.