Which characters are dynamic?

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 141827

  
> > Betsy Hp:
> > And which note would that be?  The one where he disciplines Harry 
> > whenever he catches him in wrongdoing?  The one where he saves 
> > Harry's life whenever he's around when Harry's life is in 
> > jeopardy?  The one where he tries to help Harry keep Voldemort out 
> > of his head?  The one where he takes great pleasure in badmouthing 
> > Harry's father?

> Nora:
> The note that I overwhelmingly read of Snape towards Harry is, 
> regardless of whether his actions (can be read to be) beneficial or 
> vindictive, is "you are a little shit, I have an accurate estimation 
> of who and what you are, and you are not special."  Special emphasis 
> on how much Snape thinks he's right on #2, which he tends to think 
> about most people and things: 


Valky:
#2 is the note I overwhelming read of Snape towards everyone in all
the books, so I agree with Nora here. It is Snape's largest obstacle
to change and redemption if there is to be any for him too, hence why
I agree with Alla that Snape on the verge of apologetic, remorseful,
and even slightly pathetic is something we should look forward to.

Basically, I am saying that Snape really must be open to correction of
number #2, and Harry has always been the perfect candidate for that to
happen to him. It cannot be argued from canon that Snape *does* have
the measure of Harry, I admire Nora's elegant argument for the
contrary upthread and agree with it wholeheartededly. OTOH I must
admit thinking after HBP that Snape can be interpreted as having found
it much harder to turn a blind eye to Harry's sterling qualities after
having known him now for 5 years, and I can imagine this being a
confronting situation for Snape and amusing for Dumbledore, but a lot
of that is my preferential read of the facts. 

I don't think Snape has to essentially let go of #1 or #3 of the
above, they are not deep marks in the rite of Harry and Snape, Harry
after all can continue to think Snape is a bitter horrible git even
while he forgives or realises that Snape is innocent where he may have
seemed guilty, and Snape can certainly continue to believe that Harry
is not special, this is not the deepest issue for Harry at all.
But Snape has been proven wrong about his certainty that he knows what
Harry is made of, Snape was also wrong about James on this count, and
it is this issue with Snape and James that even Dumbledore tells Harry
is the one that Snape 'could never forgive'. Dumbledore actually says
this twice in the books, he says it again in HBP, Hermione recounts
him saying, that people find it harder to forgive others for being
right, than wrong.

The way I see it, Harry is Snapes second turn on the wheel of humility
and self correction, it's seems to me that both will be facing the
same isuue that Snape faced after James had rescued him from the
Werewolf. Harry for his first time reevaluating his judgement of Snape
and Snape his judgement of a Potter for the second time. It seems only
fair to Snape and Dumbledore to say that Snape might get it right this
time round. We already know that Harry will, as it is a definite part
of his journey to do so.

So back to the point of Snape being dynamic or one note, I have to say
that we can demonstrate even dynamic characters will sing the same
tune on 2 out of three levels, but Snape does have One dynamic level
within Nora's concise summary which is fairly obvious to me. And it is
this one fluid aspect of his character which turns him from flat to
dimensional IMO. 



Nora:
> I'd agree that Harry has a 
> rather limited perspective on Snape, although I'd still think it 
> would be absolutely hilarious if Harry's suspicions turned out to be 
> fundamentally correct, finally.

Valky:
I am just curious here Nora, because I would like for Harry to find
himself surprisingly accurate on Snape too, I would like to know if
you are percieving more than one way this revelation could occur or do
you only concieve of the tower events as the way which could prove
Harry just in his measure?

  
>Nora:
> I'd say potentially complex, because as I've harped on before, 
> Snape's complexity--being based on withholds--is the kind that can 
> be collapsed with a few revelations.  For instance, say that he *is* 
> ESE: he's not nearly as complex then, is he, because his  
> 'conversion' was not sincere.  Or say that we find out he's had one 
> major motivating reason for everything he's done.  Less complex, in 
> an instant...like how a fraction reduces down.

Valky:
I see that argument, Nora, and raise you a common denominator that
could equally collapse much of the potential mystery - Lily.

The nuisance is, there's more than one method of skinning the Fox. 

We have speculated since book three that Lily could drop the mystery
man where he stands and replace him with pathetic and remorseful
candidate for redemption in a heartbeat. It's not new, and worst of
all, loads of the speculative material built into that ship has since
been proven in more recent books. For example Snape is the Hogshead
eavesdropper, and Snape left the DE's remorseful for the people he
knew from school becoming the target of Voldemort by his doing. 

I always hated the Lollipops, believe me, as a hypothesis I thought it
was biased, oversimplified and ugly ugly ugly. But I can do what Snape
cannot. When I see the other party is right, I can still hate it, and
I can still think it's not anything special, but I will embrace it. <g>
 
Valky
Glancing up at the Snapeophiles and Lollipop Shippers apprehensively.