Re: Dumbledore's "“peaceful expression”? (was: Dumbledore's pleading)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 141847

> Neri:
> A main difference between canon and interpretation is that the
> interpretation depends on our (frequently tacit) assumption as to
> the message or the point that the author was trying to make. Here,
> for example, you assume that the message was Dumbledore's
> expression and other "clues" regarding his body, because this
> would fit with your theory, and therefore you are trying to solve
> these clues and decode Dumbledore's expression from JKR's words. 
> But it is a possibility that the author's message here was
> actually different, and that Dumbledore's exact expression wasn't 
> even very relevant to it. 

Jen: Even though I agree with your later point that this passage was 
likely about Harry's reaction to Dumbledore's death more than 
anything else, I can't understand why it's suddenly inadvisable by 
list standards or list rules to form canon in our own image, so to 
speak. Why does it matter really? Are we doing a disservice to JKR 
who 'loves the theories'? Are we doing a disservice to fellow-
listees who get caught up in a certain phrases like 'peaceful 
expression' and later find out that wasn't canon as written? Anyone 
at any time can look up the exact canon as you did and say 'hold on' 
but it seems your argument is going beyond that, saying we 
*shouldn't* be extrapolating anymore. That our texts should always 
be by our sides (which mine are btw, and I use quoted canon 
frequently) to check and double-check what we say before posting. 

There are lists out there which require a very strict canon analysis 
in each in every post, and in fact listees can be removed for 
interpreting beyond that which the moderators feel is canon. But 
hpfgu has never been that way. If it were, half the wonderfully 
imaginative theories of the past would never have been written and 
enjoyed. And I don't think you are advocating we have such a list, 
Neri, but I'm hearing a message that even a harmless mistake 
like 'peaceful expression' is not acceptable anymore. 

I've found myself making several canon mistakes, even with the books 
at my side, because I don't know HBP like the back of my hand yet. I 
suspect most of us are in the same boat at the moment with that. 
Pointing it out and quoting canon has always been enough in the past 
and usually sets the error straight--why take it a step further now?

Carol:
> It is reasonable to examine the evidence and hypothesize on the
> basis of it. That, I believe, is what we do on this list. (I, for
> one,haven't forgotten that Narcissa's tears canonically splashing
> onto Snape's chest led to ACID POPS. :-) )

Neri:
> And I thank you for demonstrating how I try to do it in my
> own posts. ACID POPS is indeed a theory, an interpretation, a
> collection of hypotheses, and I was never shy about this. But
> Narcissa's tears splashing on Snape's chest *is* most definitely
> canon. I find the adverb "canonically" useful in communicating the
> difference between canon and interpretation in my posts.

Jen: So you are saying the issue that bothers you is when people 
don't clearly define theory and interpretation in a post? You are a 
great writer, Neri, and I for one would be very disappointed if ACID 
POPS never made it on the books, as well as some of the other 
theories and ideas you've contributed in the past. I hope you 
understand I'm pressing this issue because it greatly concerns me to 
see the list move from a more free-wheeling style to one where some 
of us are starting to feel very constrained by what is considered 
acceptable. We've lost a fair few good writers and theorizers 
because of this, some of whom I've talked to directly and some 
learned about second-hand. Maybe it's true 'all things must change' 
but it doesn't make it more palatable.

> Carol, who considers the "peaceful expression" *semi*canonical, but
> will try to remember to say "DD's apparently composed expression"
> in future.
 
> Neri: Why not simply use "DD appearing asleep"? It's shorter, and 
>it's canon. 

Jen, who doesn't care if people want to use 'appearing 
asleep' 'peaceful expression' 'apparently composed' or for that 
matter, 'clearly glad Snape AK'd him on the tower' as long as they 
can back up that last one ;).