Re: Interpretation (was Re: Dumbledore's "“peaceful expression”?

[juli17 at aol.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 141873

 


Neri:
The 5 hrs *difference* between the time Umbridge took Harry  and 
Hermione to the forest and the time of the Order members breaking  
into the DoM – this time difference *is* canon. It might be a flint,  
and in that case it's flinty canon, like Bill and Charlie's ages. It  
might actually be only 4 hrs (or it might be 6 hrs), but there *is*  
certainly several hours difference, corroborated not by one but many  
canon details that fit quite well together. You can't make this time  
difference disappear unless you make totally absurd assumptions, such  
as dinnertime at Hogwarts only 3 hrs before first light of dawn, or  
the battle between the Order and the DEs taking 4 hrs.

Snape's  *delay* during that period is, indeed, an interpretation, and 
I never  pretended it's canon. The problem is that, out of these 
several hours of  difference, what isn't Snape's delay must be the 
Order's delay. So you  basically have to choose what you believe – 
that Snape delayed, or that  Sirius, Lupin, Moody, Tonks and 
Shaklebolt delayed. Interestingly no one,  not even the most devoted 
Snape fans, ever tried convincing me it's the  second possibility.

Dumbledore "peaceful expression" is a different  kind of 
interpretation. It's not a situation in which you have to choose  
between two assumptions, one of which is very problematic or totally  
absurd. It's a choice between two assumptions that are, from the  
outset, equally probable, and the only criterion for choosing between  
them is the sentence "Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the 
angle  of his arms and legs he might have been sleeping".


Julie:
Oddly, I think it's just the opposite ;-)
 
Starting with the "missing 5 hours," it is there as canon if you do  the
math, in the same way that several other math-based inconsistencies
are there (like Bill and Charlie's ages). But within canon there is
NO later reference to validate any plot significance. Dumbledore 
never brings it up, no one ever does, not then and not later (a later
possibility being one of the Order--say McGonagall--commenting
after Snape has killed Dumbledore, "I always wondered why it took
Snape so long to summon the Order to the Department of Mysteries.
He must have done it on purpose, to help Voldemort get to Harry!" or
some such.) Neither does Snape mention it at a time he might be
expected to, during his self-defense speech to Bellatrix ("I also 
delayed the Order's arrival at the Department of Mysteries. It's not
my fault you and the others couldn't do your part before the Order 
arrived"). Given that lack of evidence of any deliberate  delay on the
part of Snape, the most *likely* conclusion is that the inconsistency 
was unintentional, a simple maths error on the part of JKR. Not the
only conclusion, mind you, but the most likely conclusion. 
 
When it comes to Dumbledore's expression, you're right that canon
simply states that he's looks like he's sleeping. But canon also  adds
that Harry straightens Dumbledore's glasses and contemplates his 
face. When someone looks like they're sleeping, it generally implies
a peaceful or composed expression (and looking years younger, as
the face is relaxed, with worry lines erased). It doesn't *have* to  mean
that, but it is by far the most common interpretation. And  if Harry saw
something in Dumbledore's face to indicate less than that peaceful or
composed expression, he certainly would have made note of it. Ergo,
it's a fairly straightforward deduction that Dumbledore in death did
appear quite peaceful. 

The assumption comes more in theorizing *why* he looks  peaceful,
whether it's simply because his death didn't hurt/released his pain, or 
because he died content that he'd accomplished his objectives and
was satisfied with his life and manner of death. I theorize the latter, 
but until we read Book 7 and discover what was really going on on
the Tower, it's only theory ;-)
 
Julie 
 
 


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