NECESSITY of killing?

[Geoff Bannister]

No: HPFGUIDX 141899

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "a_svirn" <a_svirn at y...> wrote:

Geoff:
 
> ><snip> 
> > Many dictators - Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini and, more recently, 
Idi 
> > Amin and Saddam Hussein for example - have been responsible for 
> the 
> > mass murder of their peoples. They may not have  pulled the 
> trigger 
> > personally on each killing but it would, to me, fit my extended 
> > definition of murder because it was for their own gain - 
extension 
> of 
> > power, elimination of opposition, strengthening of control etc. 
> > Again, I think that attempts to remove them for "the greater 
good" 
> > would not be seen in the light of murder by observers.
> > 
> <snip>

a_svirn:
> Depends on observers. Most of them at the time when these attempts 
> were made were actually quite indignant on behalf of their beloved 
> tyrants. In fact, quite a few punitive campaigns were launched in 
> order to find and punish all the culprits and nip any other such 
> attempts in the bud. 

Geoff:
I used the word specifically to mean outside observers –  perhaps I 
wasn't quite clear enough. I quite agree that there would have been 
adherents of Hitler who would have been appalled by the death of the 
beloved Führer. It is ever so -  there are people in Iraq who would 
welcome Saddam back. I think these are the folk who joined to be in 
on the power game, to be the bully boys, the sort of attitude 
displayed by Wormtail.

"You'd want to be quite sure he was the biggest bully in the 
playground before you went back to him, wouldn't you?"
(POA "The Servant of Lord Voldemort" p.271 UK edition)

a_svirn;
> Also, I for one have a constitutional dislike of this "the Greater 
> Good" thing. A very slippery concept and one open to endless 
> interpretations. Take Draco, for instance, I don't think he would 
> phrase it quite like that, but he certainly believed himself to be 
> in the right when he entered Voldermot's service. So undoubtedly 
did 
> Regulus. He might well have killed lots of muggles and muggle-borns 
> for all we know and all for the Greater Good's sake. For what could 
> have possibly been his personal gain? Money and power at least his 
> family had in abundance. 

Geoff:
I think we may disagree here because I believe, as a Christian, that 
there are moral absolutes and the concept of the "greater good" can 
fit within them. Taking your example of Draco, I'm not sure that he 
would be considering what was in the right. Like Wormtail, he's 
looking for the biggest bully. He wants a slice of the action 
tormenting and killing those who oppose Voldemort (either 
intentionally or unknowingly). There again, perhaps Regulus wanted 
more then the power and money from his family – the power to exercise 
life and death and fear over another person.

And if there was an idea of a greater good within the minds of these 
twisted individuals, then it certainly wouldn't be the absolute which 
I believe is laid down by God.

However, that, as Steve would say, is my own opinion.