NECESSITY of killing?

[a_svirn]

No: HPFGUIDX 141957


> Geoff:
<snip> > 
> Interestingly, the version I am actually have in front of me while 
I 
> write this has footnotes and it makes the following comment about 
the 
> word translated above as `murder': 
> "Several Hebrew and Greek verbs mean `kill'. The ones used here 
and 
> in Exodus 20:13 specifically mean `murder'". 
> 
> Exodus 20:13 is part of the list of the Ten Commandments and says 
(in 
> modern versions), `You shall not murder'.
> 
> So we have in actuality come full circle to the question of murder 
> versus accidental killing/killing in battle which has occupied 
some 
> of our minds recently. <snip>

a_svirn:
Well, no, not quite. While I'll be first to acknowledge that most 
Hebrew scholars translate  *ratsach* as `murder', I don't think that 
you can find the opposition between "to kill" and "to murder" in the 
Holy Scripture. The same word *ratsach* is used for manslaughter, 
killings in the battle and premeditated murder of a man. So I'd say 
the sixth commandment is pretty straightforward, however you choose 
to translate the verb in question. (My version says "thou shalt not 
kill" And the same translation in the New Testament: "Thou shalt not 
kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" 
Matthew 5:21 )

> Geoff:
> On the question of the greater good, taking the Nazi example, 
would 
> it have been better for Von Stauffenberg and his co-conspirators 
to 
> have killed Hitler in 1944 which would possibly have saved 
thousands 
> of lives or shrugged their shoulders and said "Well, its up to 
God"? 
> God works through human agents and, in a situation like this I 
feel 
> that it would be incumbent upon us to try to stop the murder, 
injury, 
> torture and terror dealt out to innocent people at the whim of 
this 
> megalomaniac not out of hate or anger but because it needs to be 
> stopped even if that includes killing.
> 
> And so it is in the wizarding world with Voldemort. 

a_svirn:
As for the greater good and Von Stauffenberg, I wonder where does 
this touching faith in his moral integrity come from? He was one of 
the top Nazi officials, for God's sake! He might well have had a 
bone or two to pick with Hitler, he quite rightly believed the 
Fuhrer mad, he was of the opinion that it was fatal for Germany to 
fight all the allies simultaneously, and so it indeed proved. But 
*that* makes me think that it was probably a good thing that he 
failed. His success was likely to result in Thousand-Year Reich 
where the sun does not set. 
> 
> a_svirn previously:
> > As for Draco looking for the biggest bully, why should he? He 
is  
> > not in the least like Wormtail. 
> 
> Geoff:
> I believe he is in some ways. Wormtail is the sort of character 
whom 
> you sometimes meet tagging along on the coat-tails of someone more 
> powerful because he gets a vicarious thrill and feeling of being 
with 
> the top dogs although, in reality he is just small beer in the 
game. 
> 
> In Hogwarts, Draco is the king of Slytherin. He has had it drummed 
> into him from early years that he is a Malfoy, he is privileged 
and 
> he is expected to achieve great things. He is fawned on by his 
> cronies, he enjoys trying to rile those he doesn't like and he is 
> smarmy to teachers he likes. But he is looking to be with the 
biggest 
> bully currently on the playground - Voldemort. He wants to be a 
Death 
> Eater and thinks that that will be a passport to a life of 
pleasure 
> and ease.

a_svirn:
Frankly I don't see from your description and indeed from the books 
how come their cases to be similar. Draco does not have to enter 
anybody's service to get a "passport to a life of pleasure and 
ease". He never knew anything else.