Did Snape owe DD a life debt? Was Re: Suicidal!Snape and the Curse of DADA

[saraquel_omphale]

No: HPFGUIDX 141960

Sydney wrote:
>And I think the whole little game started back in the day, the day
>when Snape spun his tale of 'deepest remorse'. Why did Dumbledore 
>believe him? Because Snape was trying to kill himself at the time, 
>that's why. He was on the ledge, and Dumbledore talked him down, by 
>telling him that he had to at least do what he could to make amends 
>first. And I think he extracted a promise not to take his own life 
>directly.

Colebiancardi wrote:
>Hmmm...I don't think Snape wants any curse, nor do I believe Snape 
>is suicidal. I think that he takes a lot of risks for the greater 
>good in defeating Voldy, but I think if he can figure out a way to 
>live, he will do it. If Snape's remorse to DD included killing 
>himself, then what is stopping Snape from offing himself over the 
>last 16 years? Nothing.

Saraquel:
There are parts of Sydney's post that I really like, but I do agree 
with Colebiancardi's point that Snape has not been suicidal for the 
past 16 years. But no-one seems to have taken up the possibility 
that if, as Sydney suggests and I can really buy, Snape was suicidal 
after the prophecy-death of Potters scenario (add into the mix 
someone's credible suggestion that Voldemort messed with Snape's 
family and it makes it even more probable) then would DD saving his 
life mean that Snape had a life debt to DD? 

Snape would then be bound by two life debts to people in the Order. 
As some listies may remember, I posted quite a detailed analysis of 
OFH!Snape a while ago, and although I did it as an academic 
exercise, I afterwards found that it is the most plausible 
explanation for me. As what I'm going to say here meshes in with 
that post this is the link if you're interested – 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/message/139635  

Those 16 years which Snape has spent at Hogwarts, have been spent 
unwillingly, IMO.  Not knowing the terms of a life debt, it is hard 
to know why Snape stayed at Hogwarts – whether it was, as he said in 
Spinner's End, to escape Azkaban, or whether it was because he was 
bound in some way to DD which allowed DD to dictate terms.  

I don't think that Snape is suicidal now and he has been sitting on 
(IIR) two unwanted life-debts for all his adult life. In that case, 
I can see that as really bringing out the probably latent, bitter 
and resentful man.  Probably with the attitude that Sirius, James, 
Voldemort and DD between them had robbed him of his choice in life 
and forced him to live out his life in a way that he would not and 
could not have chosen – teaching dunderheads at Hogwarts, when what 
he really wants (IMO – see my previous post) would probably be a 
research wizard's post in the Dept of Mysteries – cutting edge big 
boys stuff, with all the respect that goes with it. (I know that 
according to Arthur most wizards think that the DoMyst wizards are 
wierdos, but that can be the reaction in our world, but it still 
doesn't stop us from admiring their inventions and discoveries and 
offering them Nobel prizes.)

This might also fit with JKR's theme of choices.  In this scenario, 
Snape is the character who has experienced being denied choice.  The 
result of the choices he did make – going after Lupin and telling 
Voldemort about the prophecy – was to be denied choice for a long 
time.

If, by saving Harry's life in PS, he repaid his debt to James (if 
indeed it was passed on) and by saving DD's life after the Horcrux!
ring episode he repaid his life debt to DD, then at the start of 
HBP, we have, for the first time, a Snape who is free to act as he 
chooses. This would explain why an OFH!Snape *would* save DD's life 
and not let him die. We know that he saves DD's life before 
Spinner's End, but we don't know if it was before or after that 
Snape was offered the DADA job. 

In my mind, there is definitely a reason why Snape resents DD, which 
pushes him to kill him at the end of HBP.  I've been wondering about 
it for a couple of weeks now, and this scenario could fit the bill 
(I still like the scenario where Snape gave Pettigrew to DD, and DD 
unintentionally became one of the causes for the Potter's death - 
too much for some listies to handle, according to the responses I 
got on that one - but I think culpable!DD would be a really good 
bang!) Anyway, back to this thread – the question arises, if we 
assume this scenario to be correct, as to why Snape stayed on at 
Hogwarts at all, after repaying his life-debt to DD.  Why did DD 
offer him the post and why did he take it? Was it offered before or 
after he saved DD's life?  In what follows, I think it makes more 
sense for this speculation to think it was offered before.

Going back to my previous OFH!Snape scenario – Snape doesn't want 
either DD or Voldemort around, but would ideally like to see Lucius 
Malfoy in the big MoM job.  He knows that according to the prophecy, 
Harry is the one to top Voldemort.  DD is useful to Snape because he 
is destroying horcruxes and priming Harry to take out Voldemort.  (I 
also think a Snape/Regulus!Cave scenario is the most probable 
explanation, and this works with OFH!Snape not telling DD that the 
horcrux had been taken from there.) So Snape wants to continue in 
his DD-and-Voldmeort-trust-me role as long as possible hoping for  
his enemies taking each other out - Harry surviving wouldn't worry 
Snape, he has little regard for him and doesn't see him as a 
threat.  As Sydney says, Snape takes the DADA job willingly because 
he wants out – but, IMO, not as Sydney suggests – out of life, but 
out of Hogwarts with the possibility of some revenge.  

Now we could consider the possibility that Snape knows that the 
curse will get him as soon as he takes the job, but doesn't care, 
because if it brings out the worst in him, that's what he has been 
wanting to come out for 16 years.  All that bitter and burning 
resentment being offered an opportunity to express itself.  Here is 
a man who has lived his life in bondage and debt, perhaps he sees it 
as a way of turning being bound to his own advantage, a delicious 
irony – as some have suggested, beating the curse – not by 
preventing it from working, but by allowing it to work. Hence 
turning curse to blessing in his twisted eyes.

The question for me then, is not why did Snape take the job, but why 
did DD offer it? Jury's out on that one at the moment.

OK, Spinner's End.  That OFH!Snape, having just escaped one debt, 
would immediately tie himself into another, is a problem.  However, 
the one he is tying himself in debt to is the wife of the person he 
really wants to see in the top job, in this theory.  The family he 
is pledging himself to protect is the Malfoy family.  Maybe he is 
not as much interested in what Draco has to do, as interested in 
helping his friends survive. When Narcissa adds the third clause, 
Snape knows he is up for either killing Harry or DD (depending on 
whether he knows the plan or not – I suspect that he has not been 
told, but guesses that it must be to take out DD as he knows 
Voldemort wants Harry for himself.)  The flinch is because he knows 
he is pledging to kill DD, the man from whom he has just been freed 
from a life debt.  In OFH!Snape's master plan, it probably wasn't 
himself who was to kill DD, but that he would want DD out of the way 
is credible, so he goes ahead and agrees, probably knowing at that 
moment, that the curse has kicked in.

Saraquel
Who is now working full-time and has little time to keep up with the 
posts, let alone write them!