Strange Dumbledore, strange language, strange possibility)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 141976

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "houyhnhnm102" <celizwh at i...> wrote:
>
> Ginny343:
> 
> [...]
> > ... I know ... the word "again"  did not phase me when I read it, 
> > but I cannot find where.  ...
> > 
> > ...  JKR writes "he thought he understood" not "he understood" ...
> > so that makes me think DD was muttering in some strange language 
> > for another reason.  ...
>  
> houyhnhnm:
> 
> In the antechamber of the cave:
> -...edited...
> 
> As many times as Harry has simply "understood" and turned out to 
> be wrong, for Rowling to write that "he *thought* he understood" 
> is bound to raise a red flag. ...I agree it is suspicious.
> 

bboyminn:

I think it is simply expressing a degree of uncertainty on Harry's
part. It's the difference between 'I think Dumbledore was removing the
enchantments', which in and of itself expresses a small element of
doubt, and 'I think Dumbledore was maybe removing the enchantments',
which clearly expresses a larger more substantial element of doubt. In
a sense, Harry is not expressing a preceived fact, but a best guess,
and he does so well aware that it is nothing more than a guess.

> houyhnhnm:
> ... As a confirmed DDM!Snape-er  .... The idea that Snape was a 
> man trapped by fate who was forced to make an odious choice in 
> order to preserve DD's plan satisfies *me* as an adult reader, 
> but I am coming to think that, in a 'children's' series, the 
> explanation for Snape's behavior is going to have to be something 
> a little more concrete.
> 

bboyminn:

Two points here. First, I'm not buying any grand conspiracy theories
between Dumbledore and Snape. I'm more inclined to believe it was a
spur of the moment thing at the top of the tower. Afteral, to assume
they could plan that unlikely event, is as ridiculous as assuming they
they could plan the very unlikely and illogical death of Sirus
(referring to the circumstance, not the actual death). Dumbledore
accepted his fate, Snape knew that there was a cause and a goal
greater than the moment, and they both accepted that they were and
would be condemned.

As to people's continued references to this as a children's series,
that is simply not true. JKR never wrote this with a target audience,
or if there was a target audience, it was 'General' not children. The
publishers marketed the books to children, but that was a purely
commercial decision, thought admittedly a wise one, but JKR herself
said that she wrote these books for herself. If other people liked
them that was fine, but she was telling the story that had to be told,
and telling it the way it had to be told, and let the chips fall where
they may. So, the series is written for 'general' audiences which
includes kids, but doesn't necessarily target them.

As a side note: "Ender's Game" and "Ender's Shadow" by Orson Scott
Card are books about children that were never targeted to children;
they were targeted to 'general' science fiction audiences. Though,
much like Harry Potter, they have been picked up and greatly enjoyed
by young readers. "Ender's Game" was origianlly published in 1985 and
only recently has been specifically targeted to younger readers (with
new covers that appeal to young readers).

> houyhnhnm:
> ... I ... think... ...that Dumbledore ... took on some of
> Voldemort's essence both in the cave and in the destruction 
> of the first horcrux--intentionally....  Perhaps no one but 
> Harry can safely destroy Voldemort's horcruxes, but Dumbledore 
> thought ... to go after all five alone, ... trying to reduce
> the number that Harry must find ..., even at the cost of his
> own life. That is, he has been practicing some very deep magic 
> that hasn't been explained to us yet, and the muttering on the 
> way back to Hogwart's may be part of that.
> 
> Some of the evidence for me:  
> 1. The fact that Harry is no longer in danger from LV's Legilimency. 
> ...
> 2. Dumbledore's snarkier personality in HBP. ...
> 
> ...
>
> houyhnhnm

bboyminn:

First, I acknowledge that you are merely speculating on possibilities,
not proposing a theory, but even so... I'm having trouble buying it.

On the issue of languages, the most common European language of magic
would be, logically, Latin; but that is certainly not the only ancient
dead language. Sanscrit and Aramaic come to mind. It is unreasonable
to think the the entire world bases its magic on the ancient language
of Latin. Certainly other countries must us more regional ancient
languages. I seriously doubt that Swahili or Zulu have their
foundations in Latin, yet in the HP world, those cultures most
certainly have magic.

So, Dumbledore is over 150 years old, he has been a few places and
seen a few things. Certainly he has studing the magical language of
other cultures, and was either using magic from those language bases
or was using a Euro-based language even more ancient than Latin.

Now back to your theory/speculation, while I don't really like the
idea, I can see some foundation for it. Perhaps, only the owner of the
soul-piece can encapsulate, and extension, release the soul from its
'body' without risking injury or death. If we extend this a step
farther and accept the unlikely concept that Harry has a piece of
Voldemort's soul inside him, then it would seem that Harry might be
safe if he tried to release a soul-piece from the Horcrux. 

Though, I can't believe that Dumbledore would take this risk
knowingly. If he did risk his own life releasing a soul-piece, then it
was because he wasn't aware of that risk. Perhaps, after being nearly
killed by the release of the soul-piece from the Ring (something that
we are not actually sure of), he thought to capture the Locket and
have Harry release the soul-piece to verify that Harry would be
unharmed. Of course, the 'Death Eater's at Hogwart' plot put an end to
that plan. 

Although, I really can't accept any theory that says Dumbledore was
planning to die in the immediate future. He was making plans, he was
training Harry, he had important tasks to accomplish, he was putting
off until later important information and discussions that were vital
to Harry.

No, I'm sticking with my belief that Dumbledore was an unfortunate
casualty of war. But, again, part of this speculation of yours does
have some foundation.

For what it's worth.

Steve/bboyminn