Snape's timing and the supposedly missing five hours

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 142040

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "justcarol67" <justcarol67 at y...>
wrote:
>
> Pippin wrote:
> > > You determined these endpoints by consulting an almanac or
> something similar, but would JKR bother to do that? Nowhere else
> in canon does she approach times or dates with that kind of
> versimilitude. I guess she would simply rely on her subjective 
> opinion that summer nights in northern Scotland are relatively 
> short. 
> 
> Neri responded:
> > JKR has lived several years in Scotland and she knows that sunset
> > in  the summer there is around 10pm (using DST now). <snip>
> > This establishes that ... Umbridge takes Harry to the forest 
> > before 9:00.<snip> Conclusion: when it's important to the
> > plot JKR is consistent and exact about the timing. The relation
> > between dinnertime, the sun's position and the time of sunset is
> > consistent over both PoA and OotP.
> > 
> > ...
> 
> Carol responds:
> ...edited...
> 
> That aside, I'll grant you that she has figured out the timing of
> *Harry's* actions with some precision, .... Even if, realizing this
> deficiency, she sat down with an almanac to figure out the timing 
> of *Harry's* actions, chances are she has *not* figured out exactly 
> how Snape's actions ... would fit the requirements of the plot. She
> doesn't even seem to notice that it would make more sense for him 
> to go into the forest *before* contacting the Order the second time.
> ...
> 
> What JKR needs .. Harry ... in... the forest with Hermione and
> Umbridge, ditch Umbridge, be rejoined by their DA friends, fly to
> the MoM, be met by the DEs, fight the DEs, be rescued by the Order
> just in time, then have Harry fight Bellatrix and have Voldie arrive
> followed by DD just in time to fight him. ...
> 
> For Snape, ... to discover .. Sirius is not missing ..., discover 
> Harry's whereabouts and figure out that he has ... leave the forest 
> without a broom him ..., to search the forest when ... Harry hasn't 
> returned, to contact DD ..., and to re-contact the Order, 
> ...edited...
> 
> Carol, ...


bboyminn:

To some extent, I'm with Carol on this one. It's easy to find fault in
the timeline when you only take into account what you are told; that
is, what is in the forefront of the narrative. But the apparent
missing time is all in the background. 

When you analyse the time line in this fashion - event, event, event,
event - it's easy to come up with missing time, but that is not how
/events/ play out. What you really have is - wait, event, wait, event
wait, event, wait, event. That paints a completely different picture.

As an example, it's easy to find fault with Snape's actions if you
only look at surface events and assume instantaneous realization of
facts not in evidence followed by instantaneous action. 

Snape isn't called to Umbridge's office until some TIME has passed.
When he leaves, he contacts the Order, and Sirius seems OK; all of
which took time. So, no problem, he goes back to his office and waits.
So, he waits, and eventually after a significant passage of time, it
comes to his attention that Draco and his gang have been attacked and
that Harry has been taken into the forest by Umbridge. Well, that's
not a good situation, but Harry is with the Headmistress and she is
armed, so what is there to do but wait for them to get back. So, he
waits. Eventually, he wonders whether everything is alright, but no
evidence to the contrary, so he waits. Then he worries that maybe some
thing DID go wrong, but still, they are in the forest and they are
with Umbridge. So, he waits. Now, eventually he is REALLY WORRIED,
concerned that indeed something has gone wrong, but what? So, he waits
and he ponders, and eventually, he concludes that he must go looking
for them. I'm sure he was very annoyed at the prospect. So, he looks
and that takes time; it is afteral a big forest. As he searches the
forest, he wonders, then he worries, then he concludes that perhaps
Harry has found a way to get to London...but how? So, he decides to
leave the forest and contact some people and warn them that Harry
might be on his way to London. So how much time does that take; all
that waiting, wondering, worrying, and then all that searching and
then the return from some unknown location deep in the forest? 

That is a lot of time, and very reasonable time. If you are a parent,
haven't you ever worried about your kids? If the aren't were you
expect them to be at the precise instant you expect them to be there,
do you instantly panic and call out the troops, or do you give them
some time, do you wait and see? I suspect, within reason, you wait,
and waiting takes time; lots of time.

So, the analysis of the timeline of the events of that night only seem
flawed if you ignore the very logical and very substantial WAITING. An
hour of waiting and wondering that eventually reaches a state of
worrying, and eventually worrying to the point of action is actually a
very short period of time. 

So, yes, -event, event, event, event- doesn't add up, but - one hour
waiting, event, one hour, event, one hour, event, one hour, event-
comes pretty close, and in many cases those /one hour/ of waiting are
actually unrealistically SHORT periods of time.

I know I've said all of the above before, but I do love the sound of
my own electrons.

Steve/bboyminn