CHAPDISC: HBP 2, Spinner's End

[Ceridwen]

No: HPFGUIDX 142064

potioncat:
> 1. Bellatrix kills a fox, thinking it could be an Auror. Does she 
> suspect Snape's home is being watched, or is she always looking 
over 
> her shoulder for an Auror? Do you think all DEs would be this 
trigger 
> happy, or is it just Bella?

Ceridwen:
I doubt if Bellatrix is the only DE still walking free who isn't a 
bit paranoid about Aurors.  It's only been a couple of weeks since 
the disaster at the MoM, after all.  Bella may be more paranoid than 
most of the DEs, as she's an escapee from Azkaban, and was known to 
have been at the Ministry when so many other DEs were caught.  Living 
with Dementors for years, plus the recent events, have made her 
the 'shoot first and ask questions later' type.  Hey, it keeps you 
alive.
> 
> 2. The neighborhood sounds deserted, except for some streetlights 
> that are still lit and the presence of food wrappers at the river's 
> edge. What can our RW sociologists tell us about this neighborhood 
in 
> the late 90's?

Ceridwen:
Can't say for any RW sociologists.  I've tried to do a search about 
just that, run-down textile mill towns in Britain, and came up 
with... nothing helpful.  I think the area is like many others in 
cities and industrial towns all around the world.  The primary 
industry has either upgraded and moved out to the 'burbs, or has gone 
under.  The homes which are left are degrading, perhaps lived in by 
squatters or transients, or just plain empty.  Alternatively, it 
could now be the 'bad part of town' where no one ventures out after 
dark.  It's obviously not deserted, at least during the day, vacation 
time or weekends, evidence of the food wrappers.  And, the lights are 
still on.  So, someone must live there besides Snape.  But, the 
people have changed from the original inhabitants.  IMO.
> 
> 3. Bella knows Narcissa is going to visit Snape, but she is caught 
by 
> surprise (equaling that of many from this list) at the location. 
She 
> calls it a Muggle dunghill and doubts that any of "our kind" has 
ever 
> set foot there. In fact, Snape, Pettigrew and Narcissa all seem 
> familiar with the area. Yet it was Bella who was supposed to be 
part 
> of young Severus's gang. What do you think is going on here? How 
long 
> do you think Snape has been using this location?

Ceridwen:
Bellatrix is still the same twenty-something snob who was sentenced 
to Azkaban.  A 'dunghill' is in the eye of the beholder.  She is, or 
was, privileged, surrounded by wealth, and probably didn't bother to 
visit a younger classmate who had a (ewww!) Muggle parent, and was 
just some geeky kid anyway.  She probably spent her holidays skiing 
and swimming in the Mediterranean, and later on, being romanced by 
her later husband and possibly other candidates for her affection.  
Narcissa may have visited as a student, but then you'd expect her to 
have at least started to describe it to her older sister.  As adults, 
Snape wouldn't be as touchy about his surroundings, if these are the 
same ones he grew up in, and his friendship and organizational 
interests with Lucius would at least bring Lucius by occasionally.

I never did buy the Stately Snape Manor complete with batcave 
underneath.  Snape just isn't the Lord of the Manor type.  He 
actually works for a living.  And, he may have a better position than 
his upbringing, so no, I didn't think this was a stretch.
> 
> 4. Snape's tiny sitting room is lined with leather bound books and 
> contains a threadbare sofa, an old armchair and a rickety table. It 
> had the "feeling of a dark, padded cell." A padded cell is used for 
> someone who needs protection from himself. What does this room, or 
> the house and neighborhood, tell us about Snape? Do you think this 
is 
> his usual home away from Hogwarts?

Ceridwen:
I'm not convinced this was his childhood home, or even his usual 
place of residence.  It could be, or it could not be.  As with 
Slughorn, he could just tote his books with him as he goes to 
wherever he's ordered.  As an unmarried, childless agent of both LV 
and DD, he would be the logical one to send on 'road trips'.  I don't 
know either way, though, and there's really nothing to indicate one 
VP to another on this.  All the atmosphere could be implying is, 
Snape really doesn't care what his surroundings look like, as long as 
he has his books and somewhat serviceable furnishings.
> 
> 5. Narcissa is described as having a note of hysteria in her voice 
> and the look of a drowned person. She then enters a room that has 
the 
> feeling of a padded cell.  What does that tell us about Narcissa?  
> How does that fit with her actions later in this chapter?

Ceridwen:
That she's desperate, drowning in a sea of sorrow, half-mad with 
worry and despair, which she later proves.
> 
> 6. Snape, Narcissa and Bella drank a toast with blood-red wine. I'm 
> not sure which image came sooner to my mind at that point: Vampire!
> Snape or Sir Patrick Spens and his wrecked ship. In English 
ballads, 
> nothing good comes after drinking "bluid-red" wine.  Elf-made wine 
> doesn't sound too safe either. How many stories involve some danger 
> at drinking something made by elves or fairies? These are magical 
> folk, so perhaps it's not so dangerous. Do you think this was just 
> setting the magical mood, or was JKR waving a flag?

Ceridwen:
Just atmosphere.  The whole chapter comes off as something one might 
like to read around Hallowe'en.
> 
> 7. This is a serious chapter, with lots of dark images. It's 
> informative too, but it's difficult to decide which information is 
> truth and which is deception. What images or feelings made an 
> impression on you? How do they affect your interpretation of the 
> story?

Ceridwen:
Blood-red wine; so many dark, bound books that the place looks like a 
padded cell; candles in a fixture suspended from the ceiling, the 
dark night; the lateness of the hour; the Dementor fog; the two 
women, one dark, the other light; the 'drowned' desperate woman, a 
wraithlike figure; the flowing cloak as she ran; the play of light 
and deep shadow; the covert glance out the window; the lurking hunch-
backed assistant; foreign (elvin) wine; deserted streets, blank 
windows; two people kneeling in a travesty of Christian ritual, being 
bound by fiery serpentine bonds as a half-crazed madwoman looks on 
wide-eyed...

Plays like a Saturday horror matinee.  Add the possibility of 
deception, and the scene is well set.  I loved it.  And, it set in my 
mind that the story would be a bit darker.
> 
> 8. Narcissa asks Snape to make an Unbreakable Vow and Bella 
> is "astonished" that he agrees. It looks like a wedding ceremony, 
and 
> is obviously very serious. We've seen that magical contracts have 
> serious consequences--the Goblet of Fire in GoF, and the SNEAK hex 
in 
> OoP. None of us can really understand why Snape agreed, but is this 
> just Business as Usual in the Wizarding World? How does this vow 
> compare to magical deals in fairy tales and myths?

Ceridwen:
I see the WW as being in some ways, very old-fashioned.  A promise 
was often good enough, but for the really heavy things, people made 
vows.  Anything from a pinkie-swear, to spitting on one's palm before 
shaking hands, to solemnly swearing on some article of importance.

I do think such vows would be a bit different in the WW than in a 
fairy tale, where 'Muggles', ordinary people, are caught in deals 
with magical beings.  Somebody mentioned Rumplestiltskin, then 
there's Rapunzel and the angry witch who's been robbed; and the 
fairies in Sleeping Beauty, including the one evil witch who has been 
left out.  And, more that I'm not remembering, it's been a while!  
Snape can probably take a magical vow better than a non-magical 
person can.  Still, they're laced with trickery and double meanings.
> 
> 9. (Thanks to Carol for this question): Like "The Other 
> Minister," "Spinner's End" is written from a point of view other 
than 
> Harry's. But while "Minister" uses the usual third-person limited-
> omniscient narrator, who sees through the eyes of the Muggle Prime 
> Minister rather than Harry's, "Spinner's End" dispenses with a 
point-
> of-view
> character altogether. Narcissa, Bellatrix, Snape, and Wormtail (if 
> we're counting vermin) are presented from the third-person dramatic 
> or third-person objective
> point of view, meaning that they are seen from the outside with a 
> minimum of commentary and no direct insight into their thoughts. 
It's 
> as if both the
> narrator and the reader are invisible, silent witnesses to the 
scene, 
> much like Harry on the tower. How does this change in the point of 
> view affect our reading of this chapter? Why do you think JKR chose 
> this point of view rather than letting us into, say, Narcissa's or 
> Bellatrix's mind? How does having a chapter written from a point of 
> view other than Harry's affect your reading of HBP or the series 
> itself? Should JKR have omitted the first two chapters in order to 
> maintain a Harrycentric view throughout the book? Why or why not?
> Related link about Point of View:
> http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/virtualit/fiction/elements.asp?e=4

Ceridwen:
How many feet of parchment do you want on this?  And, can I use an 
automated dictation pen?  ;)

The third person objective allows for an objective look at a lot of 
things.  Snape's hair, for one thing.  'Curtain of hair' rather 
than 'greasy strands'.  It divorces us from a character's biases.

It also allows for a different sort of description.  When we're in 
one character's POV, we only see what they see.  The omniscient VP 
allows for something else - we know it's a fox, and how it reacts 
before Bella sees it, for instance.

It also allows for a build-up of atmospheric descriptions like the 
tower of the old mill, which Narcissa and Bellatrix may or may not 
have cared to notice.  We're able to step back and just observe by 
ourselves and allow ourselves to become the last, silent, member of 
the scene.  I doubt if all the dark adjectives would have been used 
in a character's POV as effectively - 'it seemed to Bella that the 
towering chimney stack loomed like an admonishing finger...' instead 
of the more atmospheric '...over which the towering mill chimney 
seemed to hover like an admonitory finger'.  Instead of craning our 
necks up with Bella, we see it in a more panoramic sweep.  (Though, 
it would have to be lighted, wouldn't it?  It's dark.)  Anyway, Bella 
probably would have continued with the 'dungheap' analogies, the 
blackened tower perhaps, or the awfulness of it all.

We see events as they happen, without being let into the secret 
itself, or the motivations of any of the participants.  We are freed 
to feel as stunned as Bella at the UV, or as moved as Snape is, or 
ought to be, at Narcissa's anguish.  We wonder what's going on, and 
we formulate our own interpretations based on what we know, rather 
than what someone else guides us into thinking.

I liked both The Other Minister and Spinner's End.  It was nice to 
get out into the wider world, and see the interaction between the MoM 
and the PM, and to see Snape as spy, operating as a DE with fellow DE 
Bella and DE wife (do they have a women's auxillary?), Narcissa.  It 
was also interesting to note the presence of Pettigrew, who 
disappears afterwards - why?  What is he up to?  And, where will it 
lead in book 7?  I think these chapters enhance what we learn in 
chapters 3 and 4, and give us a grounding in the UV, the relationship 
between the Muggle and Wizarding worlds, as well as the extent of 
LV's machinations in the Muggle world as viewed by a person of some 
responsibility in that world.  Poor PM!  Now he knows, but he can't 
tell a soul without being carted off to a *real* padded room!  And, 
we now know VWII is heating up, it won't be long before the final 
confrontation.
> 
> 10. Here's a question to think about when we move into chapter 
> 3: "The Other Minister" begins with a Muggle receiving two 
visitors. 
> It's an informative, yet humorous chapter. The dreary "Spinners 
End" 
> begins with two visitors coming to a very different Muggle 
> location. "Will and Won't" begins with someone waiting for a 
visitor 
> and returns us to a more humorous mood. How do these three chapters 
> work together?

Ceridwen:
They're all setting the scene for events in the rest of the book.  
I'd include chapter four as another visitation chapter, too.  At the 
end of these four chapters, we know the major players, their 
surroundings, their motivations, and we're ready for the story to 
begin.

Ceridwen.