Snape's timing and the supposedly missing five hours (Was: Interpretation)

[nkafkafi]

No: HPFGUIDX 142100

>
> Carol earlier:
> > > And if it didn't, blame the requirements of JKR's plot, not Snape,
> without whose action in sending the Order to the MoM, Harry and his
> friends would be dead.
> > > 
> > 
> > Neri:
> > I don't know yet what are the requirements of JKR's plot. I'll know 
> > that only after Book 7. <snip>
> 
> Carol:
> You don't? I stated the plot requirements in my post. You actually
> left some of them in your response, which I'll requote:
> 
> > > Carol earlier:
> > > *The plot* requires Snape to contact the Order at about the time
> the kids are fighting the DEs (setting aside whatever time it takes
> them to get organized and arrive at the DoM, into which you can't 
> Apparate directly). <snip>
> 
> Carol again:
> 
> The requirements for the Harry-centered (main) plot, which you 
> snipped, are (quoting my previous post):
> 
> "*What JKR needs* is for Harry to get into the forest with Hermione
> and Umbridge, ditch Umbridge, be rejoined by their DA friends, fly to
> the MoM, be met by the DEs, fight the DEs, be rescued by the Order
> just in time, then have Harry fight Bellatrix and have Voldie arrive
> followed by DD just in time to fight him. *This plot requires* that
> the Order be delayed and that DD be delayed even more so that his
> arrival roughly coincides with Voldie's (accomplished through his talk
> with Kreacher at Order HQ). If Harry and his friends had arrived with
> the Order already there, they would either have watched the fight from
> the sidelines or been scolded and sent home. Somehow, that wasn't
> quite climactic enough." (No emphasis in original post)
> 
> So we *do* know *what the plot requires* on Harry's side, and Snape's
> actions must be made to fit into *that* plot. The Order *must* arrive
> after the kids have spent some time fighting the DEs; DD *must* arrive
> after Sirius's death, just in time to save Harry from Voldie, etc.
> *The plot requires* some sort of delay on Snape's part (perfectly
> explicable if he doesn't realize immediately that Harry has gone off
> on what Snape knows to be a wild goose chase), but *it also requires*
> him to send the Order (and DD) in time to save Harry and the kids. So
> whatever Snape does behind the scenes (and we're only told part of it)
> has less to do with him and his motives than with JKR's need to
> squeeze in all this action. (And anything that happens after the Order
> arrives doesn't really count in the time frame, anyway. It's only what
> happens after Harry communicates the vision to Snape and the moment
> the Order arrives that we need to consider. So the sun rising as DD
> talks to Harry has nothing to do with any supposed delay by Snape.)
> 
> What matters, IMO, is that Snape *did* send the Order and that, in so
> doing, he saved the lives of Harry and his friends (or enabled the
> Order to save them, if you prefer). He even tried to keep Sirius Black
> at HQ to wait for Dumbledore, which would have saved *his* life if he
> had listened. If DD continues to trust Snape without reservation, as
> he clearly does throughout HBP, then there's no reason to suppose that
> Snape didn't do everything necessary and possible in finding out what
> was really happening and informing both the Order and DD (whose
> intended arrival at HQ Snape could not have known about if he had not
> himself contacted Dumbledore). (I know you think you've answered this
> point satisfactorily, but I remain unconvinced.)
> 
> Carol, with apologies for reiterating her argument and hoping that
> she's added at least some clarification of her points
>

Neri:
My apologies. I answered you the first time but it wasn't very clear.
I actually agreed with you about the requirements of the
Harry-centered plot, which are obvious enough, and then I demonstrated
that they can be perfectly satisfied without putting any blame on
Snape or the Order and without stretching credibility at all – simply
avoid having Umbridge invite Snape into her office. But JKR insisted
on Snape playing a central part in that plot. What are the
requirements of *Snape's part* I can't know for sure until Book 7: was
he supposed to be DDM, ESE, OFH or something else, and what were his
motives here. Therefore I can't use these requirements to prove which
plot details are intended and which are flints, and I must use other
criteria for that.

Neri